Corporate Jet Type Rating ??

[bafanguy]

I know I've led a very sheltered life, but someone has to explain this to me: I saw a Beechjet job advertised and wondered what it would take to get myself a rating in the airplane. I know these corporate operators want you " typed & current ". Well, it's a tiny little thing so how much can it cost, really ? I called two big training outfits in ICT and DFW. They told me between $13K to 21K !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just laughed at the second guy. I can get a friggin' 747 rating for less that THAT.

Is this price range reasonable/typical as far as you guys know ? If so, is there a cheaper way to do such things ? 35 years as an airline pilot means I don't know squat about the "real world".

 

[CorpAv8r]

Unfortunately, if you use FlightSafety or SimuFlite, those costs are realistic for a light jet and they go up the larger the aircraft.

I don't know if you are looking for a PIC position or just looking to do some contract work on the side as an SIC. If the latter is the case, you can probably get by with an SIC school.

We operate an Beechjet 400A and our insurance requires both pilots to have been to school in the past 12 months, but only one needs to be PIC qualified. We looked into sending some local guys to SIC school to back us up if we get sick, take vacation, etc. The Beechjet and Diamond are the same type rating and either school meets our insurance requirement. A SIC checkout in the Diamond at FlightSafety is a fraction of the cost ($4,000-$5,500).

If you plan to fly a Citation 500 series aircraft or a Learjet, you can check our SimCom in Orlando or check the advertisements in the back of BCA or ProPilot. They are extremly common aircraft and the types cover most of the fleet, so you should be able to get one of those types for less than $10,000 (if I remember correctly).

Once again, I don't know your plan, but I hope this info is helpful.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

yeah, but what the F' you going to do with a 747 type rating??

nothing.

see the point???

You wanna see something scary, look up rates for a GV or a Global Express...

but really..the overall costs??...just a few tankfulls of gas really...its all relative. The cost doing business.


Good Luck!

 

[Bandit60]

You call it a tiny little thing...that may be right but keep in mind alot of the coporate jets fly higher and faster than the airliners out there, and can be very complex and hi tech.

The prices you got from the two training centers are right. They may seem a little high but keep in mind that you will be getting good training from those operations. The big corporate operators want the best trained pilots possible so they will pay whatever the price is for that. (within reason)

Good Luck to you and hope you find what you want. I have also been told from some former airline pilots that have gone to coporate how much fun they have doing coporate flying.

 

[SkywayFO]

I think Simuflight and Flight Saftey training is really for Sh**. The airline training is way better. They are raping all of us, but they are the only games in town and that is what insurance wants is what goes. So the the conspiricy I tell ya.

 

[Rick1128]

It is really not FSI and Simuflite sticking it to us. It comes down to economy of scale. The airlines rent out the unscheduled time in their sims a bargain rates. They are already paided for and the building and staff are budgeted on the airline side. So almost all the income from this is all profit.

The costs have gone up somewhat due to Part 142. Now FSI and Simuflite just can't stick in an extra chair. The class sizes are limited. And this drives up costs.

As for corpoarte aircraft being more complex. I have been in both worlds and the state of current generation aircraft on both sides of the fence is of similar in complexity. The older airlines were often much more complex that current generation anything, requiring a great deal of manual systems management.

As for that 'little bitty aircraft', they tend to be more difficult to fly that the larger aircraft.

Plus corporate/charter flying is much different that airline flying. You are basicly on your own and are responsible for everything. I have flown with several retired airline pilots and the first month or so can be interesting.

 

[Kingairrick]

My FSI initial in the King Air 300/350 was 21K. I just got a quote for the Hawker 800: 28K per pilot. our insurance requires we go every year.
Now our insurance company is a Berkshire-Hathaway company. Guess who else is, FlightSafety International...

 

[Bandit60]

Your right i dont believe that the coporate jets are more complex i that they can be as complex. I believe the older the type of aircraft the more complex it can be. (727 for example)

 

[hawkercpt]

Our company

Options has a contract rate with Simuflite because we do all of our training there now and I think they still get $8000 for recurrent in the Hawker. The sad part is the training is well below that of Flight Safety.

 

[bafanguy]

Thanks for the info, guys. As I said, I know that I don't know. Tell me how all this works, then. Most all the job postings I see require a type rating & currency & time in type. So, the corporate guys ( possilbe exception, fracs ? ) are out there coughing up $10k to 20K for the training ? That's pretty tough...

What would I do with a 747 rating ? Well, I see a lot more 747 jobs around the world than Beechjet and I was just making a comparison.

As for corporate flying: I imagine and hear it's different than airline. But, I began my career flying Part121 non-sched in DC-3/6/9...standing on my head in a phonebooth getting wx and filing a flight plan so I am guessing I can learn/relearn whatever it takes. And, ya know, it sounds like fun.

Thanks again.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

bafanguy,

NO. corp guys dont cough up the 20K for thier training. Training costs are just part of the package when operating a corp jet. I never paid one penny for any corp a/c training - (and I have worked for a few bottome feeders too!)

Rememeber, many of these are owned by companies that are very wealthy - unlike any airline. Its just another tool to be competitive in business. They couldn't thrive without them. To large companies with Worldwide needs today, corporate aircraft are a neccessity - not a luxury like 15 yrs ago.

Now, the ones owned by individuals can be dicier - they are pleasure aircraft that can disappear quickly whent the money goes away...

The jobs you see where they want you to buy a type rating/fund your own training are typical entry level gigs that will provide you with a terrible quality of life - no doubt. It certainly wont be the fun retirement job flying these "tiny jets" that you think it may be!!

Good corporate jobs NEVER require anything like this - time in type is simply NOT required - even if you are current and qualified - you go to initial training anyways. You are hired by references and personality. thats it.

I personally dont think you will like an entry-level charter/corp gig. They are for the young and dumb.

Are you prepared to:

schlep coffee and catering across the ramp?

vacuum an aircraft after a 16hr day?

arrange for cleaning? arrange for mx?

make hotels, rental cars? Is the boss's limo there? your fault if its not...

show up 2 hrs ahead of time b/c your boss in unpredictable?

deal with the pressure to fly some broken equipment?

be gone every weekend to the "vacation home"? (and fly charters all week)

deal with snotty kids and tag-alongs?

etc..etc...

Its not fun. being a career airline guy with tons of experience you may just enjoy one those 747 gigs instead...or maybe fractionals? they are more like your structured airline but they work thier a$$es off and dont enjoy the benefits of flying corp if you ask me..

Good corp jobs are typically had through contacts. Do you have any in the corp arena? If so, get in touch with them.

Any YES, good corp jobs are a lot of fun (to me at least). pay is decent, benefits are excellent, equipment is as good (if not better) than airlines. International flying on the corp side is great - more time in fun places, better hotels, etc...not just a 24 hr layover at the airport SAS Raddison like many airlines...

So...good luck....but shop carefully at these pay-to-play entry level jobs. They can be downright rotten deals!!

Better yet, its a small industry - if you see one - just ask....you will get some valuable feedback here about most operators.

Good Luck again!

 

[bafanguy]

G200,

Thanks for the insight. I knew there'd be a lot of experience and wisdom to be had on this subject.

 

[TIS]

Negotiate harder!!!

$28K for a Hawker Type?????????

You can go to Simuflight and get the type in the 700 Sim for A LOT LESS than that and be qualified just fine. It's just an HS-125 rating and it covers 'em all but the 1000

As for larger airplanes I got a recurrent G-IV type recently in LGB at FSI and the bill came to $13,700.

If the dollars are that big then someone's bending over VOLUNTARILY!

TIS

 

[AA717driver]

This will make your eyes water--I'm in G550 initial and the non-negotiated(full retail) price is $60,000!

Ouch!

You'd think that for that kind of money I'd at least shave before class... TC

 

[redeye69]

A B747 type might be nice and tempting to get, but if you look carefully at those B747 job offers, you need to be current in the a/c and have at least 500 hrs on type. I have a few thousand hours on B747 but I am out of currency. Therefor, I don't qualifiy for temp jobs, like Park and stuff.
I never bought a type myself and I don't think it's a good idea. Any decent company will train you in the a/c they fly. Why spend money on a type if you're not even sure to get the job? What kind of company would ask you to pay for your own type? You tell me, am I dreaming or what?

 

[airbaker]

Glad to see a former "red" moving on. Good for you! Man, a G550 is at the top of the food chain in corporate...hopefully you'll tell the boys in Centerport to shove it in a few years.

Congrats!

 

[FracCapt]

You'd think that for that kind of money I'd at least shave before class... TC [/B]

Hell, for that much, you should be able to show up to class in your underwear...because it should be right in your living room! You'd have to put on some clothes to go to the sim, though...since it wouldn't fit inside, it'd have to be in the driveway....then again, if your neighbors are used to seeing you outside in your underwear, it's all good..

 

[bafanguy]

redeye69,

I agree and have seen those same 747 ads. I had mentioned the 747 type just because the guy at Simuflite mentioned it as a comparison.

This whole self-funded type rating thing is a bit of a new concept so I thought I'd ask these folks. There's NO WAY i'd pay for a rating in my particular situation for a "maybe" on a job.