Corporate B717

[Jack Schitt]

Looks like Airtran isn't buying anymore 717's.

Who's gonna buy these birds?

Boeing

 

[2000flyer]

I think the article answered the question. FRACTIONALS.
That would be my guess.

The few corporations that do fly shuttles do so economically with DO-Jets and the EMB-Legacy. Xerox used to operate the CRJ but I think they ended that but I'm not sure.

Midwest started out as the corporate shuttle for Kimberly-Clark and grew into an airline. There was a company in Dallas that studied using MD80s for shuttle operations. I think one of the guys later went to new frax Business Jet Solutions (later FlexJet).

Maybe you'll see someone like Options or Flex, or a new frax try to provide service to compete with NJA, however, I've heard shares of the BBJ aren't selling well at NJA, though charter work seems to be keeping them busy.

Also, besides Boeing trying to sell new 717s, aren't there a number a former AAL/TWA 717s parked in the desert? I'd bet they could be had at a reasonable price also!

Good post! May be worth watching to see if Boeing goes through with it.

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[Ty Webb]

Originally posted by Jack Schitt
Looks like Airtran isn't buying anymore 717's.


Actually, we are taking 16 more of them this year . . . . but they are the TWA birds.

We have taken so many of the new ones, we have used up our allotment for the year. . . . .

Expect an announcement of either B737-700/800 or Airbus 319/320 sometime in June.

I suspect we'll keep taking 717-200's for quite a while, and we'd take the -300 too, if they ever decide to produce it.

 

[fokkerjet]

As for the TWA/AA 717's sitting in the desert, they have new homes waiting from them as soon as their new owners can convert them over to their configuration. No white tails to be had!

I'd like to see a few 717's in our fleet, the RJ's just won't cut it with the passengers after they've flown in a couple of airliners for a number of years. Try loading a large group, plus baggage, and fly for several hours in a CRJ...........not a pretty sight.

 

[B190Captain]

Re: Re: Corporate B717

Originally posted by Jack Schitt
Looks like Airtran isn't buying anymore 717's.


Actually, we are taking 16 more of them this year . . . . but they are the TWA birds.

We have taken so many of the new ones, we have used up our allotment for the year. . . . .

Expect an announcement of either B737-700/800 or Airbus 319/320 sometime in June.

I suspect we'll keep taking 717-200's for quite a while, and we'd take the -300 too, if they ever decide to produce it.

Ty,

If AirTran decides on airbus or Boeing 737's, what will happen to the 717's. Isn't AirTran focused on keeping one type of aircraft in their fleet like SWA? Or will there be 2 types?

 

[2000flyer]

This May Answer Your Question

Boeing Proposes a Shuttle Version of 717
Boeing announced on Tuesday at the European Business Aviation Convention and Exhibition in Geneva, Switzerland, that it would market a corporate version of its 717 airliner. The move comes with a hopeful eye toward the emerging corporate-shuttle and all-business-class-airline markets. Citing “a very positive response” to a Fortune 100 focus-group study, Boeing said it would sell 30- to 80-seat versions of the 106-seat airliner for $27 million–$10 million less than the price of the airliner, which has struggled to find acceptance. Performance, avionics, support and warranties are said to be undiminished in the corporate version. In fact, the range of a 60-seat 717 would be 2,060 nm, 460 nm greater than that of its airliner sibling. Optional 1,290-gallon aux fuel tanks would boost range to 3,140 nm. Perhaps more important, the corporate 717 would have an mtow of less than 100,000 pounds. Together with its sub-Stage 3 noise signature, the lower weight would permit operations at airports such as Teterboro (N.J.) where larger, louder aircraft (including the 100,000-pound-plus BBJ) are not welcome.

 

[fokkerjet]

The 717 should be a rocket if they are limiting the gross weight to 100,000 pounds.

That gross weight looks pretty low if you want the maximum range with any type of useful payload. The numbers we had a couple of years ago, showed that we would need the 121,000 pound version (and big engines) to transport 88 paxs 2100 miles westbound.

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't know the numbers for the corporate version, but our airline version averages 67,500 BOW and we pay for a MTOW of 120,000 with 18,500 (small) engines. ZFW is 98,000. Figure about 4500-5500# pph on the fuel, and ours hold 24,609 with no aux tanks.

I have never even seen a takeoff weight above 112,000 even with full pax, full fuel and bags . . . . . We pay for 104,000 Max Landing but I have heard the structural limit is around 110,000.

 

[fokkerjet]

Ty Webb

I don't have the information that Boeing sent us several years ago, but just quickly running the numbers, we would gross out at just over 117,000 lbs for our required mission (BOW @ 68,500 + Fuel @ 29,500 + 88 passengers at 220 lbs each including baggage @ 19,360). It may have been the case that in order to get the long range tanks, you need to order the IGW version, I don't remember.

Just curious, but what averages do you run for passenger weights? Using our formula I'd have your gross weight above 117,000 at takeoff (BOW @ 67,500 + 117 passengers @ 25,740 + Fuel @ 24,609)?

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: Ty Webb

I believe summer weights are 170 lbs and bag weights are 25.

 

[Midnight Mike]

Airtran of course if the major buyer, but other internation carriers are beginning to look at
the 717, rumors that the A318 is not looking really good, engine problems. Qantas/Impulse
is looking at picking up several more (rumor), the Star Alliance is seriously looking at placing
an order for 100 plus aircraft. Airlines are still waiting to see what the 717-300 will look like
bigger with more seat, or bigger with greater distance.

I am lucky to have taken the 717 simulator for a ride, what an amazing aircraft, handles great!
I am kind of spoiled, the 717 simulator is located about 100 feet from where I sit!


HA!