CorpEx Crash Raises Old Questions

[Jetboy]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/10041950.htm

 

[atrdriver]

Anyone who really believes that a pilot, ANY pilot, is at his/her best after 6 legs and almost 15 hours of duty time is a complete idiot...

 

[chperplt]

I did my graduate thesis on crew fatigue.. Unfortunately, I think it's going to take a major crash before this issue is addressed at the higher levels. For the scare of your life, go to the online ASRS database and search fatigue.

 

[lowslow]

It's going to take a few in a row before somthing would ever happen.

How about AA in Little Rock? Quite a few died there, still nothing.

 

[chperplt]

How about AA in Little Rock? Quite a few died there, still nothing

That accident did a lot to bring the problem of fatigue in commercial aviation to light. Unfortunately, other than the major unions getting a little reform out of a few companies, nothing was done.

At somepoint the FAA will get with the program. Progress is being made, although it's progressing at a snails pace.

At least now, repeated calls (2) during a rest period restarts your rest. Hopefully we'll see the min rest go up, and the max duty come down.. hopefully before more die.

 

[CA1900]

Maybe, at the VERY least, we can close that ridiculous loophole that allows Part 121 operators of 19-seaters to operate under the flight and duty time rules of Part 135. Absolutely unaccceptable in my eyes.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Duty and rest rules are CFRs only to be changed by congress.

Creating less duty and flight time will increase staffing that will increase company cost.. ie more JOBS! Sounds good unless you are management....

The ATA (not the airline.... the POLITICAL group) spends more money than pilots do on legislation influence.....

If pilots want to be effective and change duty/flight time they need to get involved...

ALPA-PAC! This is how it has always been done sionce 1931.....

You don't have to be an ALPA pilot to contribute.....

Are there any other PACs?

Don't like ALPA? then contribute to the APA's PAC... It doesn't matter....

Don't wait for the dead to be on your conscience....

 

[Raven]

I have done a single 15 hour and 40 minute / 8 leg / 3 aircraft swaps / 2 mechanicals / 1 fed ride day, that was all completely legal with the FEDS. Then, when you try to call in the company and tell them you're too tired, they phone the chief pilot at 11 pm, wake him up, and patch you through. Fun. Because all he does is ask why you can't do it, as though the FACTS don't stand for themselves.... No wonder why people die on these things. Pathetic. Shareholders #1 / Safety #2 / Employee moral? What's that. The FEDS are pressured by the companys for the $$$. Little Rock should have capped the deal on this one. That was their Chief Pilot Flying for Pete's SAKE!!! I wouldn't recommend this profession to ANYONE. It sucks. Period. All you 600 hour CFI's, find something else to do while you can! The profession is dying fast. It's being "Walmarted" out-

ME? 5500 hour commuter driver for 6 years and sick of it.

I used to be like you- Wondering HOW some folks could come on here and be SO negative... Just couldn't figure it out.

 

[pilot_guy]

Hey Raven...I'm with you!!!

Amen Brother!

I got 600ish hours, and I figured this one out. F*ck flying and the majority of people in this industry. Most of the small time operators who hire us lowtimers are all crooks, (ask me how I know.) and it seems everyone who crawls his way into a cockpit thinks he's the next TopGun.

Then you end up working some crap job trying to fly when you can. It's like being a minor league ball player working and waiting to get "the call". Unfortunately, you're washed out and out of practice when you do get your chance. Bitter me? Nooooooo. Just another disillusioned, disenchanted pilot who ran out of money and time.

I'm just gonna buy me a powered parachute and to say the he!! with this! Then I'm gonna get me a super soaker full of "recycled beer"...fly over some folks out detailing their airplane, "rain" on someone's parade! Take that Aviation!!!!

Mwuahahahahaha!!!!!

 

[Peanut gallery]

The Cummulative Thing is what get's me

It is not the single day of 16 hours and a bunch of legs that gets to me, it's the days in a row of this that really takes it's toll. Day 1 no problem, but then I need a real rest period min 12 hours to get up and do it again. Some companies have guys doing 4 days in a row min rest with these long days, that in my opinion is where mistakes become inevitable. If the Feds are unwilling to change a daily requirement they should at least address the amount rest after a long day. How about, anything over 14 hours duty requires at least 12 hours off duty. Companies could easily deal with that and the safety factor would go way up.
Untill the industry gets some relief here, the answer lies with us to slow down and take our time to do things right when we get tired. I operate in a different mode when I get tired, I double check things more and try to keep the stress at a lower level. I try to keep external pressures to a min. If the fueler is late, the fueler is late. 2 hour ATC delay, no big deal just time for the the crew to pull out pictures and talk about how our kids are doing. This keeps things in perspective for me, what is important is to get the job done safely and get back home to what matters most. Day one I might be the super invoved problem solver, get me tired and I just fly from A to B as safely as possible. I only have so much energy to give per day especially after insuficient rest.

 

[Raven]

Hey Peanut nice twist on it. I am just so mad at the let down as a whole- the lack of integrity -industry wide- when it comes to human life. My post was directed at those still not here yet, still in a position to find something else to do.

You are right- PIC PIC PIC. Now, whenever we get a mechanical, or whatever, time is precious. Our time (my crew and I) is utilized with rest as the number 1 priority since it's not given as part of the schedule anymore- for the most part.

 

[Hovernut]

As far as the crew fatigue issue goes, anyone who considers the van ride as "rest" is a moron. That has to be one of the rule changes in the next legislation...the definition of LEGITIMATE rest conditions.

And, don't you just love those "late release," "early report" short-cycle days where you get to the hotel after all the restaurants have closed, and you get started the next morning in the same manner...and you're LUCKY if the hotel has a muffin grab-n-go?

 

[Tug Driver]

I did my graduate thesis on crew fatigue.. Unfortunately, I think it's going to take a major crash before this issue is addressed at the higher levels. For the scare of your life, go to the online ASRS database and search fatigue.

What is ASRS?

Whats the link address?

thanks

 

[chperplt]

The Aviation Safety Reporting System is a joint venture by NASA and the FAA to collect and analyze data to lessen the likelihood of aviation accidents

asrs.arc.nasa.gov