Corp.

[CXAV8]

Just looking for a debate. What's a better place to spend your flying career.

Big Department(i.e. GE, BP,TAG,Ford etc.) or small One plane operators(i.e. Mr. Big, Daddy Warbucks).

 

[banned username 2]

DEFINATELY a BIG department (Fortune 100)

 

[Gulfstream 200]

ditto...
big company no doubt!

P.S. TAG is not a big company, just a mangement company - comprised of many small companies....if you need any info - PM me!

 

[bigD]

How big are typical flight departments of large companies? I guess it of course depends on the company, but on average?

 

[banned username 2]

How big are typical flight departments of large companies? I guess it of course depends on the company, but on average?

My Company has 7 aircraft and 28 pilots, 13 mechanics & 5 dispatchers, we are a $25-$35 Billion company...

I know 3M is about $15 Billion and they have I think 5 G-V's...

Really all depends on the company...

BP/Amoco is like a $160 Billion company and they have only 3 aircraft 2 G-IV's and a G-V

 

[CXAV8]

I agree with flying for a big department. But are bonuses better, upgrades quicker, ease of operation better at small departments. It can be frustrating to be locked in a large slow moving flight dept. What about pay and benefits? Schedule? etc.

 

[banned username 2]

I agree with flying for a big department. But are bonuses better, upgrades quicker, ease of operation better at small departments. It can be frustrating to be locked in a large slow moving flight dept. What about pay and benefits? Schedule? etc.

Typically at the large departments Quality of Life is much better, a schedule usually exists and benefits are usually complete...

 

[fokkerjet]

Just to make things a little more interesting, why is a big company better?

I work for a large corporation with a fleet of large corporate jets, 28+ pilots, 10+ flight attendants, 4 dispatchers and 15 +/- maintenance techs. I've also worked at a mom and pop company with just 1 King Air and 2 pilots.

There are days when I miss that King Air because life was so much simplier than it can be at a large corporation. For one thing, little to no politics were involved. On the King Air, not only did we dispatch and fly the airplane ourselves, we also had to clean it and supervise maintenance on it. At the large company, we just fly. With the politics in place here, I'm only allowed to fly the airplane. If I see something that needs to be done, I have to go through channels to get something to happen, even if it's as simple picking up a missing glass and bringing it to the airplane from the hangar.

On the other hand, large corporations usually pay very well, have great benifits, retirements and other perks. You also usually find yourself in some very nice pieces of equipment, flying worldwide.

As with any job, it's always a matter of opinion as to which is better, but the bottom line is, what do you feel is better for you?

 

[mike]

Small corporate flight departments are good. The problem is finding a company that is all business. Our companies use the plane as a business tool. Many companies don't need an aircraft. The boss buys a toy to transport the few on weekend ski/fishing/golf trips. No, thank you.

Quality of life issues are held high with our people and the annual bonus is generous. Don't look for quick upgrades in todays job market. We haven't hired/lost a pilot in over three years.

Good hunting.

 

[bigD]

The more I read about the crap going on in the airlines, the more I'm drawn to the corporate side of the fence. I think it's pretty cool to be one of maybe 30 pilots in a company, as opposed to one in a couple thousand.

Is it possible to end up on a somewhat regular schedule while flying corporate? I'm sure it's like anything else in aviation where it'll be a little crappy as I'm moving up through the ranks, but once I get some time and seniority under my belt, can I expect a halfway normal family life?

 

[JetPilot500]

Is it possible to end up on a somewhat regular schedule while flying corporate? I'm sure it's like anything else in aviation where it'll be a little crappy as I'm moving up through the ranks, but once I get some time and seniority under my belt, can I expect a halfway normal family life?

At my place, we get to choose days off and request trips. So that does provide some predictability. Many of our trips are scheduled weeks in advance, but they do change or cancel occasionally. Trips do "pop-up" occasionally, but we usually know about it a few days in advance. In corporate you MUST be flexible. You must be willing to change your plans from time to time. You can't let it get on your nerves too much when your passengers are late or early. We are Limo Drivers, so we work with their schedule (when safety allows).

Corporate definately has its advantages over airlines. It isn't for everyone. I know several airline people who could never be a corporate pilot. They are unwilling to throw a bag or deal with passengers. That kinda attitude will never work in corporate. You must be good with dealing with people and customer service is everything.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[fokkerjet]

Our company has "scheduled" flights, which make up about 50% of our flying schedule, the remainder being on-demand. Our flightcrews have scheduled days off per month, but we do not bid for trips in the same sense as airline pilots would, we are randomly scheduled to meet the demand of the schedule. Usually at the end of the year, we are pretty evenly divided between the on-demand and scheduled trips.

I am not aware of any corporations at have a trip bid process, and that's not to say there isn't one, corporate usually just doesn't have regular flights that would accomidate that type of process.

 

[banned username 2]

I am not aware of any corporations at have a trip bid process, and that's not to say there isn't one, corporate usually just doesn't have regular flights that would accomidate that type of process.

We don't bid our trips like the airlines, but we can request trips (and 99% of the time we get them)... So in a way we bid them I guess... If you don't request any particular trips you are scheduled on trips to meet the demand of the schedule (around your days off), they try to balance out things as much as possible...

Our schedule is fairly predicatable... it seems that usually if our trips change they either shorten or cancel, rarely do they lengthen or pop-up short notice (in 6 years I have done 3 "pop-up" type trips and I had about 4-5 hours notice... ALL of them were due either to a crew member calling in sick or an aircraft breaking down and we had to go rescue the pax with another plane)

 

[cvsfly]

We are Limo Drivers, so we work with their schedule (when safety allows).

Corporate definately has its advantages over airlines. It isn't for everyone. I know several airline people who could never be a corporate pilot. They are unwilling to throw a bag or deal with passengers. That kinda attitude will never work in corporate. You must be good with dealing with people and customer service is everything.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

For the time being, I would rather be a limo driver than a bus driver.

 

[JayDub]

CXAV8,

This whole thread cracks me up! It is like debating whether you'll hit the lottery for $10 Million, or $50 Million. The number of positions out there for quality Class A operators are very limited. Let's use Falcon Capt.'s numbers for our average. They have 7 airplanes and 28 pilots. Do you know how many Fortune 100 companies there are? That's right, 100! Now multiply 100 times 28 and you'll end up with 2800 pilots flying for fortune 100 companies. Out of 1,000,000 actively employed ATP rated pilots (the last I knew) chances are not in your favor.

Personally, I flew for a fortune 1000 company. I thought I was stepping into the "big time". Believe me when I tell you you'd have a better relationship with mgmt. at a regional. At least then you could get a union to back you every time your C.P. asked you to fly a broken airplane. I flew for a guy worth $1.6 Billion and most regional Captains made more than me. I was about to get a Challenger 604 type, which would have put me all the way into the "fifties". Whoo-hoo.

All in all, I liked the corporate lifestyle and mission. My problem was this: if I wanted to be a peon, cubicle bound, corporate slave, I would have gone that route. If you want to fly for a living, be real selective. Unfortunately there are a lot more companies that count on you being desperate, than those that count on you being selective. For sure, get everthing in writing.

Best of luck.

JayDub

 

[irapilot]

Of course Mr. JayDub, there are some of us that don't "qualify" for the airlines, we don't fit the accepted profile, didn't wear the right suit, don't do well in strictly regimented outfits (did my time in the U.S.N.), don't have a 4 year degree or just don't like being on "the schedule". I think it all comes down to it is what you are into or what your goals are - corporate flight departments vary considerably from the good, the bad and the ugly as do the airlines, the whole profession has changed and will keep changing, you just have to find a niche for yourself and be as happy as you can.

Best of luck

 

[Flywrite]

JayDub,

You may want to recheck your figures. the FAA Airman Registry shows just over 140,000 active ATP holders in the US today. Still a pretty big number, but well short of a million. When you figure that a percentage of these active pilots do not fly professionally, have no desire to, or are retired and the odds get a bit better. Still a tough market, but definately easier than winning the lottery.

 

[hyper]

civilian, 3000+ hrs. and capt. for jetblue? oooooooo k.

 

[CXAV8]

Jay-Dub all that cynicism and negativity must serve you well. It's unfortunate that you were the lowest paid Challenger Cpt. in the country. The thread was started to gain viewpoints, not tips on how to get on with a Fortune 100(FYI I work for a large one). Hope your negative posts continues to provide enjoyment.

 

[banned username 2]

Personally, I flew for a fortune 1000 company. I thought I was stepping into the "big time". Believe me when I tell you you'd have a better relationship with mgmt. at a regional. At least then you could get a union to back you every time your C.P. asked you to fly a broken airplane. I flew for a guy worth $1.6 Billion and most regional Captains made more than me. I was about to get a Challenger 604 type, which would have put me all the way into the "fifties". Whoo-hoo.

All in all, I liked the corporate lifestyle and mission. My problem was this: if I wanted to be a peon, cubicle bound, corporate slave, I would have gone that route.

Sounds to me more like you were flying for this "Individual" then the company... I am guessing it was a one ship operation with probably 3 pilots... better than 30% of the trips were personal trips for "the Boss"... Plus you were expected to do additional duties such as clean the plane, and extraneous things for "the Boss"... In these kinds of jobs you tend to almost be a personal Concierge for "the Boss"

Yeah, Yeah, the guy owned a Fortune 1000 company, but I bet you were "His Pilots" flying "His Airplane"... Even if your paycheck came from the company...

"I was about to get a Challenger 604 type, which would have put me all the way into the "fifties". Whoo-hoo."

Mid-50's? This give a little more insight on the class of the operation... We start our first year guys at $80k...

Just like in every industry, there are good jobs and bad jobs... sorry to hear you had a bad one...