Corp.

[CitationCapt]

Changing the tune

quote:
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Originally posted by JayDub


All in all, I liked the corporate lifestyle and mission. My problem was this: if I wanted to be a peon, cubicle bound, corporate slave, I would have gone that route. If you want to fly for a living, be real selective. Unfortunately there are a lot more companies that count on you being desperate, than those that count on you being selective. For sure, get everthing in writing.

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JayDub,

Be careful what you say about corporate life. Nothing is permanent in the airline industry. You may find yourself TRYING to find a job back in the corporate world again.

CC

 

[DiamondJim]

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to side with Jaydub on this one. It's not hard to see that there are a lot more bad operations out there than there are good ones. Once you've been in one of these bad operations it's real hard to get the taste out of your mouth..... In my case I thought I won the lottery when hired into my BeechJet position, now I'm not so sure..... The CP is a lying bag o' sh!t, there is no such thing as a schedule, and the pay sucks to say the least. At first I was signed on to get the type in the BE400 and in six months when we upgrade I'll get typed into the Challenger! Well that was a lie as there is no Challenger, never has been, never will be. Huge raise in July!!! OOPS, that was a lie too. Never got a raise, never will... Supposed to get two weeks vacation every year.... guess what.. Oh yeah you can take off, but you have to pay for a contract pilot... They are making $400 a day... a three day trip would put a big hurt on me!!! It started out at about 70% business and 30% personal but that didn't take long to turn around and now it's about 97% personal. I talked to someone in the company the other day that said he couldn't get on the plane if his life depended on it..... He's th VP of sales!!!!!!! Now the owners wife booked the plane every weekend for the rest of the year and into next. Destination is 30 minutes away and we have to stay with the airplane in case she wants to leave early. Christmas morning we have to fly her son to a camp somewhere.

I would wager that more than 80% of the corporate jobs are like this. I congratulate those who have found the fortune jobs. I also congratulate Jaydub for using his time in indentured servitude to move on to a real job. I have learned several lessons from this misadventure and plan to move on as soon as I find someplace to call home. Some place that doesn't suffer the same pitfalls. I just wanted to give some insight to those who think all corporate is lifestyles of the rich and famous. This has been a good place to build some quality jet time and see how things could be if managed properly.

Now I've sent resume's to almost every one in the NBAA guide who has more than three planes and haven't heard a word back. Thanks for letting me vent and I welcome any insight into finding the dream corporate job.

-DJ

 

[CitationCapt]

Here's a previous post

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The corporate culture is different, depending on the size of the company and the management. You are wearing many hats during your work day. Larger flight departments with adequate staff can have advance trip notice, but smaller departments like mine are at the mercy of the company travel department and a pager with a good battery. Be ready to accept any managerial, concierge, or other duty with a smile.

And yes, getting a job you are happy with (and your management is comfortable with having you in) is the hard part. If you do the research and become acquainted with those who make the hiring decisions, then you start building on those contacts, much the same as any professional sales person would do. You dress the part and you make regular contacts with an updated resume'. You offer to help out when other staff are sick, on vacation, at recurrent, etc. Better yet, you seek a job flying for a charter department nearby or in the same building. Your contacts see you on the ramp regularly and are able to evaluate you from a distance discretely.

What complicates all of this is that your residence is not anywhere near the flight departments of your focus. Right down the reasons why you should move nearby or the reasons why you can't move. Discuss any move in detail with your spouse, if this is a major factor, then find some common ground to make the change.

As mentioned in previous threads, find a NBAA member directory. This guide is an invaluable tool in finding the operators you want to focus contacts with. Lastly, remember that some of the best jobs out there aren't advertised. What applies in other fields applies here.
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Sorry Diamond Jim that what sounds like your first corporate experience seems shoddy.

There are many good small operations out there contrary to popular belief, but you need to do the leg work to find them. Obviously a large well run operation is a goal for many of us, but limited opportunities exist. Don't give up on corporate just because of your first experience in this field.

Good luck in your future endeavors CX8V8 and DiamondJim.

CC

 

[Rick1128]

There are good and bad corporate operators out there. And the size of the operations does not seem to matter. Though the larger ones tend to be better. I have flown a single plane owner that was almost 100% personal and was treated extremely well even though I was just a contract pilot. I have flown for a two jet operation that was 90% plus business. There I was treated reasonably well. And would have no problems about going back if asked.

On the other hand, I also have worked for a 2 plane owner that his trips were 99% personal and 1% business. He'd get in my face and demand to be flown out of Aspen in the summer time 1000 to 2000 pounds over structual GW. Thats not even considering performance limits. Then he would get upset when I quit on the spot. And of course he would treat the flight crew as his personal n*****rs.

The impression I get from a friend of mine who flys for a major corporation is that their flight department makes the chacters of 'Dallas' look like candidates for sainthood.

A corporate flying job is like any other flying job. It is what you make of it and depends on the company. Some are very good. Some are bad. And the majority are somewhere in the middle. Sometimes you will have to make a stand. It's not impossible when little issues like safety are concerned.

 

[JayDub]

In my post, as is often the case with me, I didn't fully convey my thoughts. In my reference to being a cubicle worker, I was speaking of the office politics, not of extraneous duties. The guy next above me in seniority was a serious brown-noser to the chief pilot and senior management. He would nearly knock me over to get some face time with the chairman or the CEO. As you might have been able to tell, I don't exactly hold back from saying what I think. I say what I believe.

My flight department had two aircraft, a brand new Hawker 800XP, and at the time a challenger 601. I was hired for my Hawker experience, because the other five guys had none, and it would make insuring them easier. The Challenger was the "carrot". My problem was, I didn't care to fly the "heavy metal", as the chief piloted had counted on. The Hawker was over 90% business where as the challenger was 30-40% pleasure for the chairman.

The intent of my post was merely to cite a counter view to what I was observing on this forum. Not every job is a fortune 100 company. Even those that are, may at some time turn ugly. Like I've mentioned before, I've flown with two guys from Daimler-Chrysler. They lost their jobs after almost 15 years of service, while people with 1 year of service were retained.

I truly wish no one harm. However, there are unseen pitfalls I feel need to be discussed. Like I mentioned previously, (with very few exceptions) you have to get any deal in writing. Whatever you get, must be upfront, for the most part as well. Notice Diamond Jim's story. To do this, you have to have a little bargaining power, which reads as experience. Until then, you are usually at the mercy of whoever you can get on with.

Come to find out in my case (in my opinion), the chief pilot only hired me to prove his point he couldn't hire a young guy for fear either that person would fail or go to the airlines. He had buddies he wanted to hire, and needed to prove he had to do it his way. So, he reneged on his promises he made me to get me to leave. These promises included responsibility and pay, as well as others. I had promised him two years of service. I missed my commitment by 18 days, whereas my replacement only lasted ten months.

JetBlue came along at the perfect time for me. I was able to get another flying job with out moving. Often times, an operator in a smaller market won't hire you away from a regular corporate operator on that field. Many of the top executives are on each others boards, and don't want to embarass themselves. That's why it's a lot more common to go from a charter operator to a regular corporate gig.

I meant no offense to any of the corporate pilots that posted to this particular thread, or this forum in general. I do, however, stand by my post.



JayDub

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CXAV8 Just looking for a debate.