Corp Jobs Contradiction ?

[KeroseneSnorter]

bafanguy,

If you notice, even a 121 carrier advertises when Chief Pilot positions come open, even though to be a Chief Pilot for said airline you have to be a current pilot on the senority list and it is not open to a newbie off the street.

Corporate is not that different than 121. I don't know about when you were hired, but for the last 10 years at least, getting a 121 interview is all about who you know as well. They just throw enough others in to avoid a lawsuit.

Since you are long time airline, that can be a minus also. I managed to be at the right place at the right time. Even though I am flying corporate now, I still have airline stink on me as far as some of the big first class corporate operators are concerend.

I can't say I really blame some of them, I have seen some of our airline brethren act like they are still airline pilots with a union contract while flying corporate. I actually heard that some furloughed idiot from my airline started arguing with his new boss, over the boss smoking a $20 cigar on his 10 Million dollar airplane. You can guess who won that one. The pilot is back sending out resumes, and the boss is still smoking his $20 cigar on his 10 mil. airplane!

 

[sleepy]

Bafan,

You come across a pretty bitter. If you want a corporate job you need to change that attitude. It is not the airlines, where you may never fly with the same crew again. You have to work with the same small group of people for years. You spend more time with these people than with your own family. Nobody wants to spend that much time with a bitter former airline pilot that thinks the corporate world is all against him.

As the previous poster said, the connection thing is really no different in corporate than in the airlines. I would like to have gotten at least an interview at DAL a few years ago. I was more than qualified, but they wouldn't give me the time of day because I didn't have any squadron buddys (or Daddy) to walk my stuff into Plato. I guess the way everything has turned-out in the airline industry, it worked out for the best for me.

 

[ultrarunner]

Allright, let me start over. It's apparent from my harsh comments that I did not hit a good note with Bafan. For that I am sorry. This board should help folks in need and be of benefit...

So, while I can appreciate Bafan's frustration, I think it is common among folks that have been exposed to only one segment of aviation, trying to get into another.

When I hired on to my first Corp job, it was through networking, and I was clearly told later on that it was in large part by a recommendation of someone the CP highly respected. Simple as that.

But I also busted my behind along the way after that point. Heck, I had buddies that did airline interviews (AND HIRED ON) with 1000 hrs TT that had done an internships. I got zip in that department until I had over 7000 hrs. I did 4 airline interviews...two I got because a System CP moved my stuff to the top. Two because I just applied. Successful at one that I just applied to (if you can count being furloughed successful).

But never gave up along the way.

BTW, both of the guys I hired were furloughed airline guys. One I knew, as I mentioned, and one recommended.

As sleepy said, these are folks that we have to live with quite a bit, and when given the choice, I think we (CP's) will tend to always hire IF POSSIBLE, someone that is a known-quantity.

But press on. Work with the system as it can pay dividends.

hth, and sorry for giving you a hard time.

 

[bafanguy]

Bafan,

You come across a pretty bitter.... bitter former airline pilot that thinks the corporate world is all against him.

??? Not in the least...no reason for that...

 

[CarjCapt]

Twenty-five years ago it took networking to get my first corporate job. I had three corporate jobs until the last one sold the aircraft (I helped them sell it), I then decided to get an airline job, which I did.



Fast forward to today I'm back looking for a corporate job and I've found that nothing has changed. I'm out networking again trying not only to use my experience but also my personality, charm and big positive smile.



It is frustrating even today knowing that the job you apply for online or even through someone you know is already filled when the advertisement is placed.



It is the old axiom of “It is not what you know, It’s who you know.”

 

[AA717driver]

From a bitter, ex-airline guy...sort of.

Bafanguy--When you go looking for a corporate job after the airlines, you have to totally wipe the slate clean. You have to adopt the attitude that you are underqualified(compared to everyone else out there) for the position and really concentrate on selling yourself.

Some call it grovelling or sucking up. Call it what you want. If you think of it in that vein, you will continue to call yourself unemployed.

It isn't easy to make the transition. You have to wait until they ask you about "how it was in the airlines" and not be to bitter about being on the street after 15 years or 'once being a captain and now unemployed...'

This is a new and different challenge for us ex-airline types and we have a lot to learn. We can use our experience to build on in this job but it's not a lateral move. Going corporate is like transitioning from fighters to 747's--virtually nothing is the same and it's very challenging.

But if anyone even thinks you have ever had a chip on your shoulder, they will show you the exit. Our furloughed bretheren did not do us any favors in the early 90's. Lot's of bad tastes left in corporate operator's mouths.

Good luck. PM me if you want more insight.TC

 

[Publishers]

There are a couple of things to keep in mind. First, that resume that you left 6 months ago is in a heap somewhere. They may or may not bother to look for it.

Second, they may have a piece of equipment that is unique to their immediate neighborhood and not have that many resumes that are equipped and qualified.

Third, you may find someone better than you local choice. It does not hurt to look.

Fourth, you get a better picture of the market talent and pay from talking to a number of people.

Fifth, with the internet, it is going to still be quick. In the old days it took some time to advertise and wait for responses. Today you click , tomorrow you have three thousand emails (few qualified but certainly a bunch).

HR and legal will be happier and so will the chairman because you searched far and wide before hiring your cousin.

 

[aeronautic1]

G200

You want to fly-um G200? Me fly-um G200. Flight Safety initial is $31K. You go get-um type, plenty work for you.

Typical contract PIC pays $600-650 per day/$450-500 for SIC. You will probably need 100 hours in the aircraft before insurance will approve you for PIC, maybe not. However, with the large numbers of this aircraft on order and being delivered each month, this is a good type for the future. Not too many contract pilots out there.

There are now currently 103 hulls built. NetJets as ordered 50 with another 50 option. How do you fell about riding right seat with someone half your age and 1/3 your flight time for a couple of years? Because that's what you have to look forward to at NetJets until a left seat billet opens up by seniority.

Wishing you the Best of Luck.

 

[bafanguy]

Thanks for the info, Bros. My original post was prompted by the most idle of curiosity. But, as sometimes happens, asking one question generates the unanticipated return of learning things that are even more important than the original issue. Thanks for your insightful replies. Merry Christmas to all.

 

[SilentBob]

networking

Aeronautic1 (and others),


Since we're talking networking, got any suggestions for the best way to get your name out for contract work after you do get the FSI type done in say the GV (G550 initial and G450 differences). Maybe there is not as much work for this "friend of mine" as there is for a G200 guy but he would like to find out. He's got a few contacts but looking for more since he spent too much on Christmas gifts etc. Any thoughts appreciated.

Snoogins,

Jay (for SilentBob)

 

[ultrarunner]

I would get information to the usual sources that provide crews, such as Flight Crews Unlimited, JPI. I would also suggest contacting Jet Aviation and Tag Aviation. Two friends of mine have been currently doing a fair amount of work for both these outfits.

 

[skydan]

Connections are good BUT

You have to also mine jobs. Some good boards are

www.planejobs.com
www.aviationcareer.com
www.skyjobs.com
www.avcrew.com
www.findapilot.com

 

[JumboCat3]

Fair is Fair.....

OK, here I go again. Just trying to understand. I get the message that corp job hunting is all about connections ( assuming you're qualified to start with)...you have spoken and I believe.

So then, when corp operators are looking for one or two heads, why do they advertise on the internet job websites ? They can't fill the position from local, known recommendations ? It's all about connections and they don't have such a limited number of local "connection" candidates available they can't find two heads ? You're supposed to routinely make the rounds of your corp community wth a fist full of resumes...you have to schmooze them over time ( like foreplay...sorta ), yet when they need two people they advertise ?

Coca-Cola is advertising for a captain ? Excuse me...THE best-known brand in the world has to beat the internet bushes for a captain in a huge corp town like ATL ? Coca-Cola doesn't have a huge stack of resumes from which to pick ? Connections ? You told me all about "connections".

And, Kingair jobs...what's the deal with that ? They're as common as fleas. And these operators don't have local talent lined up in the wings...panting and drooling ? I know, it's an entry-level airplane but so what; the world is lousy with qualified pilots in every town. Every day brings a new batch of Kingair job postings. Why ?

And, why is NetJets advertising for pilots ( twice in recent weeks ) ? A well-known frac actually has to appeal to the public for MORE resumes ?

I'm just an old airline guy, but I'm totally confused by the corp world. I'm getting mixed messages and don't know enough to unmix them.

I am, however, confident YOU will explain all of this...and I thank you and await answers to all sentences followed by a "?".

===========================================
Mr., You are correct.

In the chicago area, all of the young Corp. pilots
know who is who in the area. They know exactly
who they will let in and who they won't let in.

I see the different company pilots ( usually 35 to 45 years old) having
lunch together around town. These pilots know all the poop
on pilots from charter firms or training institutions.
If you have ever done anything wrong or don't fit their click
you won't ever have a chance.

I started interviewing last March at some big Corps. in the
area and found it to be a joke.
I interviewed with a Chief Pilot who seemed to like me.
Then he had me come in again to be beaten up by his
indians.
They asked me questions like, " will you serve passengers catering?"
And, "Will you take orders from a young Pilot?"
Each Pilot was watching the time and seemed bored to hell and
gave you the feeling that they were going through protocall.

I knew the second I came into the room that I did not have a
snow balls chance in hell at that company. I have seen all the
young pilots at local establishments talking.

LINE13:
I did not fit the perfect profile of being 35 years old, big hair,
play golf and have a mini van full of kids. I knew it. I felt it.

I interviewed at a company right next door to the above corp..
I am typed in both jets that they are hiring in. I have extreme
experience in both aircraft as Captain. I live .8 miles from thier
front door.
But when I interviewed, they were quick, cold and short.
They told me they were just seeing who is out there.

But I am sure they had a pilot picked long ago and HE fit
the description of LINE 13.

I have been flying for 26 years and suddenly I am not good
enough.

I don't care what anyone says, These young guys want
nothing to do with a certain age bracket, pro or not.

I agree, these companies play the game for the EEOC.
But no one is watching! No one can prove a thing.

Evil.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I gotta know what "extreme experience" is.


I wouldn't hire ANYONE with "extreme experience"

.

!