Corp info

[agonyairfo]

I have a small favor to ask. I don't post often and I typically just read posts and shake my head! But now I am looking for a little info. I appreciate any you could throw my way.

I have been a regional fo (prop/jet) at two airlines combined for almost 7 years. I am still junior and going no where fast. I have been thinking of bailing to do some corporate/charter flying. I am assuming a modest pay raise in return for no travel pass or hard days off. I am ok with that and hope to see PIC a little sooner.

I pretty much only know other regional pilots and they seem to be spring loaded to a "corporate sucks" attitude whether they have had the actual experience or not. I have 7k+ total and 5k+ m.e. and turbine, 1500 jet. No kerosene PIC or type ratings (thank you regional airlines of the last decade!). Any idea what sort of equipment/pay I would be competitive for? If I went to a large charter department, could I expect to upgrade when I got a few hundred hours in type and prove that I am not totally incomp?

Thanks again for any info.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Sorry man, but the truth is, not much. You'll be sitting right seat for a while. 5000 hours of SIC time really ain't worth that much. The big problem you'll find is that you have a 121 "stink" on your resume, and most corporate operators will toss it right in the trash. The look at it and say "Hmmm.....this guy will bail back to the airlines the first chance he gets. Trash. " Sure, that may not be your intention, but they don't know that, and along with the other 500 resumes they have sitting on their desk, you'll most likely be scrapped.

To break into corporate, it's been said a million times......you have to know somebody. The only 121 pilots that get corporate jobs are 1: people that know someone or 2: people that get hired by HR non-pilots that don't know any better. Either way it's just plain luck. You've got a lot of time, but you have no corporate or 135 experience, i.e. time in type, so insurance companies won't like you very much either. At that point it becomes a matter of convincing someone to spend $15K to $25K to train you.

Bear in mind also that at least 2 or 3 times a month, a regional pilot pops over here on the corporate board and says they are miserable and want to break into corporate flying. Good luck. There's a million misreable 121 pilots out there looking for jobs, from regionals and majors. Hell, when I had to hire a copilot for my plane, I posted an ad on the internet, and got at least 150 resumes, at least 2/3 were 121 guys, and some had 3000 or 4000 hours of PIC turbine, 5 or 6 types. Super high time, highly qualified pilots begging for a right seat in a Citation. Every resume was scrapped. Why? 7000 hour pilots aren't gonna be happy sitting right seat in a Citation. They'll show up, we'll spend $16K on school, and they'll be looking for something else from day 1. No smart CP is going to want anything to do with that.

Anyway, amidst all this blather, the point is, if you want to go corporate, you're pretty much going to have to start over. Either you'll get lucky, know the right guy, and get in, or start out right seating in a 135 gig and build contacts that way. But it ain't easy. Good luck!

 

[agonyairfo]

Thanks for you info. I realise that 121 guys are likely to go back, but I thought that there was a percentage of companies who had some sort of training contract. This should minimize their financial risk and make the pilot think twice about leaving. I have heard of corporate/charter guys hopping jobs pretty quick too.

 

[ElecJet]

agonyairfo check pm.

 

[Bjetset2]

I Disagree

Agonyairfo:

You have a chance in the corporate world. 121 regional flying is very good experience in advanced equipment and is recognized as such. As for the 121 "stink", that is the problem of the person hiring you. A good CP knows how to interview and is trained by his/her company to find the right PERSON and sort out anyone who is not sincere about corporate long term aspirations. The PIC time is not a big deal. You will be an FO for a while anyway at a good 91 operator because a good operator's only turnover is due to retirements. The pay will be better as an FO at a reputable corporate flight department than as a long term regional FO. Just be patient, persistent without being overbearing, and network as much as possible with people in the corporate world. You will find something out there for you. Good luck and never stop trying. If you find a job with a good corporate operator you'll never want to leave. It's the best kept secret in aviation.

 

[ElCid88]

Agonyairfo,

I am like you, I never post anything here or anywhere else, but I wanted to encourage you to keep trying for a corporate job if that is what you want. Your experience is fine, and a good Chief Pilot will recognize this. It can be hard to brake into corporate since these departments are smaller and they tend to be a "tight Knit" group of people. When I got furloughed from the airlines noone would even talk to me even though I had flown corporate before. Another furloughed friend got me in at his charter company which eventually lead to a great Part 91 job. I hope to never have to go back to the airlines, and I was with a major airline where I had it much easier than you guys at the regionals. Just hang in there and don't give up. You will make it, and probably like it.

 

[Swaayze]

Thanks to you last 2 guys for keeping the hope alive.

I too am very interested in making the jump to corporate. And yes, of course some of the reason is the pay/conditions at the regionals. I do have recall rights to USAirways, but that really neither excites me much anymore nor helps me in being taken seriously while hunting for a corp gig. I am, in fact, looking for a quality long-term position and am not deterred by being a FO for a number of years, as long as it's a good operation and a reasonable wage. I also realize that I have a lot to learn and re-learn in switching to corporate. I am very willing to do what it takes to excel in the job, but the difficulty lies in getting anyone to take me seriously with such an airline background. I know that networking is the key, but after being an "airline guy" for so long most of my friends/contacts are industry types, so a lot of my searching is being done via internet and cold resume submission. Eventually something will give, but it IS difficult for airline types as CapnV said. I can't even get a Caravan freight operation (5 min from my house, probably higher pay, PIC time and home every day doesn't sound too bad) to give me the time of day even though I'd probably be there longer than most of its newhires that get a few hundred hours and rush off to the regionals.

Good luck to us!

 

[Mercury]

Seems to me that there have been quite a few threads on this very subject recently. Do a search on the regional and corporate message boards and I'm sure you will find a lot of good info.
Best of luck in your job search, there are some great flight deparments out there, I made the jump 4 years ago and have never looked back.

 

[Kingairrick]

I have a small favor to ask. I don't post often and I typically just read posts and shake my head! But now I am looking for a little info. I appreciate any you could throw my way.

I have been a regional fo (prop/jet) at two airlines combined for almost 7 years. I am still junior and going no where fast. I have been thinking of bailing to do some corporate/charter flying. I am assuming a modest pay raise in return for no travel pass or hard days off. I am ok with that and hope to see PIC a little sooner.

I pretty much only know other regional pilots and they seem to be spring loaded to a "corporate sucks" attitude whether they have had the actual experience or not. I have 7k+ total and 5k+ m.e. and turbine, 1500 jet. No kerosene PIC or type ratings (thank you regional airlines of the last decade!). Any idea what sort of equipment/pay I would be competitive for? If I went to a large charter department, could I expect to upgrade when I got a few hundred hours in type and prove that I am not totally incomp?

Thanks again for any info.

Ahem....NetJets. I have a very good friend that just left an Fo seat at TSA for NJA. He's lovin' it.

 

[Flyerjosh]

I second the NetJets thing for the regional guys... it's a less abrupt transition to the "corporate" world for airline guys.

The big thing that I seem to see from former airline guys that can't hack it in the corporate world is a lack of proper attitude. Unlike the airlines where there's a contract and a lot of "I don't give a damn" attitudes, the corporate world requires INTERACTION and high levels of service towards your passengers.

Many airline pilots just aren't willing to go the extra mile (loading bags, serving food, changing schedules at short notice, administrative work, etc) and have an ingrained "it's not my job" attitude that doesn't work in this environment.

I agree that some operations out there totally suck. But some are golden. If you can find one of the good ones, you'll never go back to anything in the airline world again (I for one consider myself quite fortunate... the pay isn't great, but pays the bills and has made flying more of a hobby for me than a job.)

Keep at it and see what type of connections you can build. Also consider figuring out a way to get your ATP. It's much more important than a type rating, particularly in the corporate world. With 7000 TT and as much ME/Turbine, you should be able to find something out there that pays better than an RJ FO. It just comes down to what you're willing to accept in terms of career path, equipment, and location.

 

[wudalmstfly4fre]

agonyairfo vbmenu_register("postmenu_1049209", true); what airlines have you been flying for?