Controllers Retirement Age 56

[Stan]

For those of you that think that age 60 retirement is not a safety issue and would like to see no mandatory retirement age. How would you like to have a 70 year old Tracon controller vectoring you around New York or Boston during a blizzard. Lets face it as we get older our skills diminish. Age 60 is and arbitrary age, but so is 65 and changing it to 65 won’t increase safety.

 

[satpak77]

there are retired FAA controllers working in Contract towers for private contractors WELL into their 60's my friend

 

[miles otoole]

For those of you that think that age 60 retirement is not a safety issue and would like to see no mandatory retirement age. How would you like to have a 70 year old Tracon controller vectoring you around New York or Boston during a blizzard. Lets face it as we get older our skills diminish. Age 60 is and arbitrary age, but so is 65 and changing it to 65 won’t increase safety.

Won't decrease safety either.

 

[sonny320]

there are retired FAA controllers working in Contract towers for private contractors WELL into their 60's my friend

That's correct but some of the places they work at is Ithaca NY, Greenwood MS ect...kind of a nice place to semi-retire.

 

[satpak77]

That's correct but some of the places they work at is Ithaca NY, Greenwood MS ect...kind of a nice place to semi-retire.

what does that have to do with the original posters argument about "old controllers"

I suppose a Hawker being cleared for takeoff at Ithaca is lower on the importance scale as one at Love

 

[smellthejeta]

Show me a controller who WANTS to work past 56...

 

[Tim47SIP]

There is a ton of them!

Show me a controller who WANTS to work past 56...

All of the NFCT towers in the country! There are quite a few of them. Additionally, many ARAC's such as Cairns at Ft Rucker (one of the busiest instrument training areas in the world) have retired controllers.

 

[Stan]

The retired controllers are not working in the demanding environment that most of us are working in on a daily basis.

Retired pilots can continue to fly airplanes for fun, instruct, or if someone is not concerned about their age they can be hired to fly personal planes Part 91. They just should not be allowed to fly people around that have bought a ticket on a part 121 airline.

The best captain I have flown with was months from retirement. He easily could have flown past his 60th birthday. I have also flown with many more guys during their last year that should have hung it up earlier. Age 60 is a arbitrary age, but so is 65 and increasing it will put more guys past their prime.

 

[satpak77]

Show me a controller who WANTS to work past 56...

for every pilot that wants to work past age 60, a controller wants to work past age 56

trust me on this one

 

[Spooky 1]

The retired controllers are not working in the demanding environment that most of us are working in on a daily basis.

Retired pilots can continue to fly airplanes for fun, instruct, or if someone is not concerned about their age they can be hired to fly personal planes Part 91. They just should not be allowed to fly people around that have bought a ticket on a part 121 airline.

The best captain I have flown with was months from retirement. He easily could have flown past his 60th birthday. I have also flown with many more guys during their last year that should have hung it up earlier. Age 60 is a arbitrary age, but so is 65 and increasing it will put more guys past their prime.

Stan I believe you are probably correct. Most guys at say age 42 to 52 are at their peak in stick and rudder skills. But....everyone takes the same PC and either passes or fails. At your airline, what percentage of failures are attributed to pilots over 55? Now if you have a real no BS answer for that okay, but please don't guess. I would suspect that this data is on file somewhere although not in that excact form. I used to be a Standards guy and when a pilot busted a P check, he needed a Line check within the following 30 days. This was not an assignment that kept us busy at the airline I worked for then and I suspect that P check failures are pretty well dispersed through out the seniority list. As a matter of fact there seemd to be as many F/O rechecks as Capt.s

The point is, there may be a time when you are at your peak and that time might be significantly prior to your 59th birthday, but you are still capable and qualified as a pilot. You make it sound as if a lot of your airline's most senior guys are running on empty and being carried by the F/O's, a condition which I doubt exists?

 

[HoserASA]

The FAA rule on not hiring anyone over 30 as a controller is crazy too! I retired as a USAF Controller, took the FAA test (scored very high), but was eligble only for a Flight service position, which I was offered.

Of course, the FAA didn't care about how old we military controllers were during the '81 strike when we were deployed all over the country. Oh well, there was always ASA.

 

[Stan]

Look, there has to be some mandatory retirement age. 60 is as good as any because that is what it has been for 46 years.

How many of you have had an 80 year old working in the cockpit. I have, and also a lot of guys in their late 60's and 70's. Most of them were great guys but well past their prime and I would not have wanted them as the PIC. They all were able to obtain at least a 2nd class medical and in some cases a 1st. Most were hard of hearing a few had trouble walking up the steps to the jetway.

Changing to age 65 is just a step along the way to doing away with the retirement age altogether. In my opinion this would hurt safety.

 

[smellthejeta]

there are retired FAA controllers working in Contract towers for private contractors WELL into their 60's my friend

I know that What I asked was to be shown a controller who WANTS to work past 56. Seriously, working out of financial necessity and working because one wants to are two different things. I know several guys who want to retire before 56 (acceptable after 25 years in with the FAA regardless of age) but can't because of financial reasons. As for going contract at age 56, if you need to work, your skill set is as narrow as a pilot... what else are you realistically going to do?

I do suspect that because of the same financial reasons, there WILL be an increase in the mandatory pilot retirement age, as those pensions that were there can no longer be counted. That income has to be supplemented our replaced.

To the guy who says that 121 pilot should be required to retire at age 60, as a fare paying pax, I could care less how old the guy up front is as long as he can do the job..

 

[K. Marx]

Look, there has to be some mandatory retirement age. 60 is as good as any because that is what it has been for 46 years.

How many of you have had an 80 year old working in the cockpit. I have, and also a lot of guys in their late 60's and 70's. Most of them were great guys but well past their prime and I would not have wanted them as the PIC. They all were able to obtain at least a 2nd class medical and in some cases a 1st. Most were hard of hearing a few had trouble walking up the steps to the jetway.

Changing to age 65 is just a step along the way to doing away with the retirement age altogether. In my opinion this would hurt safety.

Just go through any aircraft transition class with people in their late 50's and you will be even more convinced it will hurt safety. Most pilots toward the end of their career will admit it is much harder for them to learn anything new. But they don't seem to recognize their skill in the aircraft is also slipping. I have flown with numerous older ca's that say they want to go past 60 because they are as sharp as they ever were. I think they actually believe it. If there truly is no difference then 64 yr olds should be able to fly with 64 yr olds. Clearly their is some sort of acknowledgment their that there is an issue with older pilots. Funny thing is they wouldn't be able to fly with other 60+'s but could still fly with newhires (and even be checkairmen?). Great combination there, old guy who can't hardly fly anymore with a new guy that is unlikely to question him. One thing is for certain though, my workload is much higher when I am flying with a 58yr old with many thousands of hours in the plane than with a 48 yr old with 100 hrs in the plane. I believe the older guys just can't or refuse to see that they are slipping. It seems to be a pretty steep slide from around 55 to 60 in my experience. Can't wait to see how much of one it is from 60-65. This may not be pc, but it is how just about every fo and even most Captains I know feel after years of flying with different age groups. This is just an accident looking for a place to happen.

 

[Spooky 1]

Look, there has to be some mandatory retirement age. 60 is as good as any because that is what it has been for 46 years.

How many of you have had an 80 year old working in the cockpit. I have, and also a lot of guys in their late 60's and 70's. Most of them were great guys but well past their prime and I would not have wanted them as the PIC. They all were able to obtain at least a 2nd class medical and in some cases a 1st. Most were hard of hearing a few had trouble walking up the steps to the jetway.

Changing to age 65 is just a step along the way to doing away with the retirement age altogether. In my opinion this would hurt safety.

What kind of outfit were you working for that had an 80 year old flying? Must'a been a ROPE? Your profile would not indicate such experience. As long as we want to be arbitrary, why not make it as say, 50. Works for me.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Here's the big one-- and what kind of retirement plan are they looking at (I bet a pretty good one!!!) Firefighters and policemen as well-- they retire early, but again generally have great retirement plans...

 

[Stan]

What kind of outfit were you working for that had an 80 year old flying? Must'a been a ROPE? Your profile would not indicate such experience. As long as we want to be arbitrary, why not make it as say, 50. Works for me.

50 works for me too.

I was at UAL, before they parked them all the 747's and DC10's had all the FE's over age 60. And like I said at least one was 80 and many were in their 70's. Great guys but they were not as sharp as they should have been.

 

[B6Driver]

I worked with many "ROPES" and many were not my favorite people to be around but a few were as great as could be.
Seems like yesterday.