Continental

[Jonny Sacko]

As the demand for pilots increase in the next few years, this is a "box" you won't see in applications anymore. The US market will be the same as the rest of the world, where this is not a factor. I know that we all want to bring an aura of mystique and grandeur to our career, but after 25 years I haven't found anything intellectual about our job, this here is a technical job and to compare it to being a Doctor or a Lawyer, that are very specialized professions is a stretch to say the least. What the hell does my degree have to do with flying? Nothing. Now, It is Important for all that are flying to get a degree (Preferably in something not aviation related) So that you can support your family during periods of furlough.
Somebody said that they where sick to see people getting hired at majors without a degree. I don't think that you where sick because of that, since we all really know that a career where you don't need a degree in your "trade" doesn't really need a degree at all. You where sick because this folks where able to get grandfathered in and you had to do it the hard way.

Arrogance, Stupidity, EXTREME childish attitude, and you are 25 years old? I think it matches, as for you being in this industry for 25 years, with that attitude? You are the detriment to this industry. It makes me really question so much about you. Piloting is technical, yes, and it requires intelligence. The issue with someone like you is TENURE. If you have been in this industry for 25 years(I don't believe that for a second), then you have seen the inside of offices, that most of us will never have too. (And since you're so uneducated, that's the Chief Pilots; Asst. Chief Pilots; Pro.Standards;etc)
To really bring it home, I have to ask, you bio says you'll "fly anything left unattended" ARE YOU A SCAB? If you are, it explains your entire outlook. Once horrific attitudes like yours are dealt the sever blow needed, this career can correct itself back to a professional industry.

College degree's aren't to fly, It's an ATTEMPT(in your case) to say you have done the ground work and have the ability to learn, in a mature manner.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I know that where the career is headed scares you. I came to realize this many years ago after the downturn that took Eastern and PanAm. The outlook stings a little. I know, but it is for your own growth.

 

[AJL5236]

Are most newhires at CAL coming form XJT? I know there isnt a flow through agreement, but any insight to new hires backgrounds would be appreciated.. 121, 135, 91.

Thanks in advance

 

[lookin4better]

Are most newhires at CAL coming form XJT? I know there isnt a flow through agreement, but any insight to new hires backgrounds would be appreciated.. 121, 135, 91.

Thanks in advance

......they are hiring alot of xjet right now , as they have a 'pool' of prefferential interviewees that they are currently going though. There IS a finite amount. I saw it with my own eyes in a meeting with a manger. I use the term pool....however it is not an actually pool.....they just have a folder in the application system with 'express preferential interviews' , not starting flame here.....just what I heard

 

[OUjetdrvr]

Does a recent retiree help in getting higher in the pile?

 

[Captain Overs]

Thanks for the uninformed, ignorant, and useless response. Any serious input would be appreciated, thanks.

Since he's a CAL pilot I think his response is anything but "useless". I wouldn't burn bridges idiot.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

I know that where the career is headed scares you. I came to realize this many years ago after the downturn that took Eastern and PanAm. The outlook stings a little. I know, but it is for your own growth.

As I suspected.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Does a recent retiree help in getting higher in the pile?

Listen to his war stories, were they fist fights with the Chief pilot's and Management, or were they good times, and lots of friends?? Ya know...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

As I suspected.

Sorry Jonny. Nice try though!

But the closest that I have being to a Scab is about 10 feet, when they passed in front to go do our jobs
But if you work at CAL I bet that the closest that you have being to SCABS is 12 inches

Don't throw rocks living in a crystal house Jonny boy

 

[FlyMeSWA]

Since he's a CAL pilot I think his response is anything but "useless". I wouldn't burn bridges idiot.

So, if I ask a serious question about career options, and someone responds with a crack about a screen name...I'm the idiot?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Sorry Jonny. Nice try though!

But the closest that I have being to a Scab is about 10 feet, when they passed in front to go do our jobs
But if you work at CAL I bet that the closest that you have being to SCABS is 12 inches

Don't throw rocks living in a crystal house Jonny boy

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1101793&postcount=14
Quote:
What are the typical duties of a regional FO, and do they ever fly the plane at all?
If you want to fly, just come to PCL and let me know that you are one of those I LOVE FLYING types. I'll let you fly ALL the legs.

Come over Dude. We will let you work as much as your heart desires

What, are you some full Of SH!t puke at PCL? You are talking so far out your ass. I stand corrected, you've been shut down by more airlines than most will ever. Sleep in the bed your attitude created. PUKE! PISS OFF

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Temper Temper, Jonny Boy!

Not very college graduate type, then again your probably a ERAU Grad.

Cya

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Temper Temper, Jonny Boy!

Not very college graduate type, then again your probably a ERAU Grad.

Cya

LITTLE PUKE! UNLIKE YOURSELF, I WORKED MY WAY TO THE MAJORS, AFTER FINISHING COLLEGE, HOW ABOUT YOURSELF PUKE? Pinnacle, YOUR SO FULL OF SH!T! ONCE AGAIN PISS OFF, LITTLE BOY!

 

[tico]

LITTLE PUKE! UNLIKE YOURSELF, I WORKED MY WAY TO THE MAJORS, AFTER FINISHING COLLEGE, HOW ABOUT YOURSELF PUKE? Pinnacle, YOUR SO FULL OF SH!T! ONCE AGAIN PISS OFF, LITTLE BOY!

Sorry Jonny. Flying is a blue collar job that has unfortunately been infiltrated by white collar, silver spoon college boys. We need to return to our blue collar roots where being in a union means something.....where a union 737 pilot makes the same in New York, LA, Seattle or Anchorage. Where pay rates are negotiated by the national office and it does not matter weather your airline is delta united southwest or american it all pays the same....That is what will bring back the quality of this trade.....not going to happen as long as we are populated by prissy white collar college boys with silver spoons rammed up there arses.....You guys are to busy worrying about the name on the side of the plane.......

 

[coogebeachhotel]

I agree 737 pay should be 737 pay everywhere. No whip saw crap.

 

[sleeves]

So, if I ask a serious question about career options, and someone responds with a crack about a screen name...I'm the idiot?

I know that CAL is somewhat defensive about guys using them for a type and then bailing for SWA or some other airline. It was asked when I got my buddy hired. If he would have bailed it would have been a mark aginst me. You put yourself on the line by sponsoring someone to a certain extent.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Sorry Jonny. Flying is a blue collar job that has unfortunately been infiltrated by white collar, silver spoon college boys. We need to return to our blue collar roots where being in a union means something.....where a union 737 pilot makes the same in New York, LA, Seattle or Anchorage. Where pay rates are negotiated by the national office and it does not matter weather your airline is delta united southwest or american it all pays the same....That is what will bring back the quality of this trade.....not going to happen as long as we are populated by prissy white collar college boys with silver spoons rammed up there arses.....You guys are to busy worrying about the name on the side of the plane.......

I will agree with you on two points,
#1) Yes YOU are blue collar, and probably have blue collar roots, but flying was never a blue collar career until your immature cronies showed on scene. DEMANDING COLLEGE WOULD PROMOTE QUALITY, I GUESS THAT HURTS.
#2) 737 pay should be the same everywhere.

 

[Smarta$$]

I think you've stated almost every reason FOR a degree. I think the question being asked in an interview is "Are you a professional?" College degree shows you can at least study, and hopefully are a little more mature, since you've done the time and taken the necessary steps to pass. A professional has continued studies, along with continued testing, or continued education. I believe a degree will prove you are CAPABLE of being a professional, and will not fail the testing.
In no way does the opposite prevail, meaning that if you don't have a degree you're not a professional. But to sell yourself for a new career, I think a degree is a must.

A degree does NOT mean that you are a professional. We all know many party, rich kid slackers that made it through that should not have. The truth is that in many ways for a kid out of high school that college is much easier than the real working world. Not having a degree does not mean you are not a professional. So in bith cases having a degree or not haveing a degree does not prove anything.

I recently had a conversation with a Embry Riddle graduate that said very plainly that "he did not care what he got paid to fly for a regional" because he was only there until he got a job at Fedex. I pointed out how low wages at the regionals put downward pressure on all pilot wages. I explained that low regional wages gave incentive to Mainlines to outsource flying that may have stayed at mainline if regional pay was not so low. His final college educated response was "It doesnt matter, I am young and dont need alot to live on now and just need my Jet time to get to a major".

That degree really made him smart and professional. Last I heard he failed his FO checkride, but he has a degree.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

A degree does NOT mean that you are a professional. We all know many party, rich kid slackers that made it through that should not have. The truth is that in many ways for a kid out of high school that college is much easier than the real working world. Not having a degree does not mean you are not a professional. So in bith cases having a degree or not having a degree does not prove anything.

I recently had a conversation with a Embry Riddle graduate that said very plainly that "he did not care what he got paid to fly for a regional" because he was only there until he got a job at Fedex. I pointed out how low wages at the regionals put downward pressure on all pilot wages. I explained that low regional wages gave incentive to Mainlines to outsource flying that may have stayed at mainline if regional pay was not so low. His final college educated response was "It doesn't matter, I am young and don't need a lot to live on now and just need my Jet time to get to a major".

That degree really made him smart and professional. Last I heard he failed his FO check ride, but he has a degree.

I think you are absolutely correct. It's not a guarantee that a degree will mature you. I bet you are a true professional, you are a plumber?? Think of the numbers and figures running through your head. You probably do more true thinking and performing than most of us but it's just a box that will be checked by someone else. Ya, that Riddle Puke, makes everyone cringe. It's wrong. Money shouldn't buy anything but rounds of drinks for everyone else. Honestly, how many more credits do you need to complete your schooling?? I bet not too many. You can do (don't get me wrong, I know you are studying for the panel), your schooling quickly, who cares what the degree is in. But yes, I truly feel you are correct. It's just an empty box. There are people getting the job who will never make it, but have college. Sorry, it's not fair at all.

 

[foofighter145]

Here's the deal...

I'm a Riddle Puke first off , DAB '94

The way I see it, college is a nice box to check off on the application and it does put another rung under you in the comparison competition scheme of things...but in no way does it make you a professional...It simply runs you through life hurdles and is nothing more than a training ground...Some people get training in the real world out of high school while others go to colleges and universities.

IMHO "the degree" has simply become what most aviation knowledge exams have become...another box to check off to make your way up the ladder a little more palatable

I've seen both college and non-college pilots in my professional career and each of those groups representing the best and worst of what aviation has to offer...it comes down to the individual in the long run and how dedicated they are to the task.

Networking and who you know go a LONG way in this business regardless of education - and bickering about what is better or more professional is a waste of air.

Personally in hind sight I'm glad I went to Humpty Diddle because I don't think I would have had the motivation to knock out everything in 4 years including the degree and flying along with working 3 jobs if I had to do it all on the side while getting a "real" degree...and it may or may have got me a little quicker to where I want to be...

The long and short of it is, no matter what bridge you crossed to get where you're currently at, don't burn it down - as you may have to cross it again another day and the person sitting across from you on the interview panel may be on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of the "how I got where I'm at" department. Something to consider

 

[Palomino]

Networking and who you know go a LONG way in this business regardless of education - and bickering about what is better or more professional is a waste of air.

right. just so happens my strongest networking has come via my college buddies at various airlines. taking care of each other as good alumni should.

they are good friends and great contacts to have...especially in this volatile job market.

 

[bearcat]

I will agree with you on two points,
#1) Yes YOU are blue collar, and probably have blue collar roots, but flying was never a blue collar career until your immature cronies showed on scene. DEMANDING COLLEGE WOULD PROMOTE QUALITY, I GUESS THAT HURTS.
#2) 737 pay should be the same everywhere.

Sack-boy - you have a labor union...YOU are blue collar. Hate to burst your bubble, but facts are facts. Flying has always been blue collar.

 

[Tank]

What's the diff. between a degree and a "real" degree??

 

[foofighter145]

What's the diff. between a degree and a "real" degree??

I should have been clearer

For example, my degree was Aero Science...so I had a bunch of classes like Turbines, Electronic Flight Nav, Performance, Aerodynamics, Global Nav...blah blah blah...
So basically I could use this degree to either fly airplanes or teach the same courses with a Masters if pursued...pretty limiting should something bad happen and I can't fly

A "real degree" would be something such as Business Admin, Engineering, etc... in other words a fall back on something other than the airline career or the industry in general

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Sack-boy - you have a labor union...YOU are blue collar. Hate to burst your bubble, but facts are facts. Flying has always been blue collar.

Man, I'm getting tired of going over this. It's not you, it's an uphill battle.
#1) History of why a Union was formed. Safety, the guys were running into the mountains and the companies didn't care, they wanted them to fly back after a full day of flying. These small 4 companies' pilots banded together. Not for a labor union, for a safety union. Not for pay, for safety. GM, FORD, unions were there to stop the deplorable low pay, and daily beatings. These pilots weren't blue collar, tough guys yes, but absolutely not blue collar. It's written much better and more factually in the bibles (flying the line) I know you knew, just making sure.

#2)THE COMPANIES LOVE PILOTS DEGRADING THEIR PROFESSION SO THEY CAN EASILY PAY LESS. "Anyone can fly that thing." A monkey can do it. It's a blue collar job, nothing else. It's the same job flying that 145 as the 737. Their just monkeys.

#3)Without fighting to be put back as PROPERLY PAID WHITE COLLAR pilots, we are destined to clean cabin, check/replenish fluids, grind down bent turbine blades, pump the toilet, toss the bags. Look how close you are to Jetblue already, it's only a matter of time.

So what's this all mean, and who cares. WE ALL SHOULD. If we don't (as in every single pilot) we are destined to become glorified taxi drivers, at high school summer job pay. I personally refuse, but can't continue to fight each uninformed, lackadaisical pilot. Most of us have already given up and just try to do our job and go home. I think (especially for us going into CO08) we better band together and demand better. Because we all know within the next year of contract negoiations, the company will cry poor, and want another concession.

 

[Irishav8r]

4 year degree should become mandatory in this industry. We complain that the pay sucks compared to other professional careers (doctors and lawyers) but we don't want to put in the school time. This is the problem in our industry, kids with the same education as the trash man flying jets around.

I am truly not trying to thrust this arguement any further however, how many Doctors and Lawyers have killed themselves in airplanes? (I only mention that because I thought it was ironic that you would say Doctors and Lawyers instead of say, Engineers or Programmers) Should a person be penalized for enlisting in the Army instead of going to college? Should a person having four type-ratings and a two year degree be disqualified? Its very interesting to me when people support the notion that the "Whole Package" should be ignored prior to making a decision for offering employment. Chuck Yeager did not have a four year degree so I guess he would of never been hired by CAL or FDX. Professionalism is related to education, I agree, but I think it has more to do with maturity and how you deal with life, not a piece of paper.

 

[FlyMeSWA]

I know that CAL is somewhat defensive about guys using them for a type and then bailing for SWA or some other airline. It was asked when I got my buddy hired. If he would have bailed it would have been a mark aginst me. You put yourself on the line by sponsoring someone to a certain extent.

Its a s/n from when I was like 14/15 and use the same for everything, this site just happens to make your login, your s/n. You cant choose otherwise. I have no WN intentions,or a 737 type. My question is/was, can you get a look with just meeting the absolute mins with a couple of letters or mgmt help. I would be hoping to fit into the niche of a young guy at mins not coming from a regional. Again, not for another year or so...need about 300 more for TT and a little more than that for SIC Jet and Turbine.