Continental to cut 125 pilots.

[Dav8tor]

Continental Airlines announces today that 1200 jobs will be cut including 125 pilots by year end.

 

[General Lee]

I'm not sure these furloughs can "flow down" to Cal Ex---due to the fact that CAL doesn't own most of Expressjet---or that they terminated the Flow up/flow down process. I don't think the Continental Express guys would like it if another 125 pilots flow down on top of them, while at the same time they are not allowed to flow up to CAL. Hey, maybe the CAL guys could get on at Commutair---they have B1900's in CLE now. I know that sounds rough, but hey---the Comair guys act like that with the Delta furloughs.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[nimtz]

General,

They can still come back down to express, because CAL hasn't still owns 51% of us. It baffles me because express announced additional recalls of our furloughed guys just yesterday. Hopefully they can squeeze out all 125 through leaves and/or early retirements, but since CAL ALPA has no balls I would think the bottom 125 can kiss goodbye to Boeings for a while.

 

[General Lee]

But will CAL Alpa push for a flow up too? I thought they stopped that program? CAL may have to sell the remaining shares (worth about $350 mil) just to stay out of Chap 11---and then what would happen? How many new ERJ's is CALEX going to get this year? This would really suck for the CALEX guys---especially since they were told the flow up had expired....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[duckman]

Nut cuttin time...

War has started...will it be the nail for UAL/US Air??

UAL, Continental lead airline sector decline

March 20, 2003 09:00:00 (ET)


NEW YORK (CBS.MW) -- Investors backed away from airline stocks Thursday amid worry that the already battered sector would suffer greatly during and after the campaign to remove weapons from Iraq.

In the early going, the stock of every major carrier headed south. The Amex Airline Index last landed at 29.30, off 2 percent, as it headed on a downward path that could erase the 16 percent gain it has enjoyed since bottoming to an all-time low March 11.

Continental Airlines tossed the first salvo before the bombing in Iraq even began and said it will cut another 1,200 jobs as it wages its own war to stay out of bankruptcy.

The Houston-based carrier said after the bell Wednesday that its plans to do away with 125 pilots, 500 reservation agents, 350 airport agents and 225 other workers, including four senior executives who announced their retirements in tandem with the layoffs, will save it $500 million annually.

But Chief Executive Gordon Bethune warned that more job cuts would come if military conflict in Iraq - launched late Wednesday - is prolonged.

"It is clear to me that other airlines will fail," Bethune said on a conference call with reporters. "We are not going to be next."

Shareholders weren't too sure, subtracting 17 cents, or 3.3 percent, to place Continental (CAL, Trade) shares at $5.05.

Most analyst believe others will follow US Airways and UAL Corp., both of which sought Chapter 11 protection amid industry losses approaching $20 billion over two years.

Earlier this week, credit agency Standard & Poor's warned that "further airlines bankruptcies are likely."

Though United Airlines parent UAL(UAL, Trade) already is in bankruptcy, liquidation is becoming a growing possibility, the company said earlier this week. Shareholders remembered that Thursday, taking out another 7.21 percent, or 6 cents, to leave the stock last trading at 78 cents.

On bankruptcy watch already, American Airlines parent AMR Corp. (AMR, Trade) erased 5 cents, or 2.7 percent, to $1.79 while Airtran (AAI, Trade) was off 7 cents, or 1.1 percent, to $6.03 and ATA Holdings (ATAH, Trade) slipped 7 cents, or 1.7 percent, to $3.94.

Even those considered surefire survivors lost in early action. Delta (DAL, Trade) shares tumbled 31 cents, or 3.5 percent, to $8.53 while Northwest gave up 23 cents, or 3.1 percent, to $7.13.

Southwest (LUV, Trade) lost 22 cents, or 1.5 percent, to $14.05.

 

[Freight Dog]

There goes Gordo again jumpin' the gun just like after 9/11. Hope this doesn't prompt another big fat round of furloughs around the industry.

 

[Floyd94]

One could almost conut on it. Gordo reacts, everyone else follows...

 

[nimtz]

But will CAL Alpa push for a flow up too? I thought they stopped that program? CAL may have to sell the remaining shares (worth about $350 mil) just to stay out of Chap 11---and then what would happen? How many new ERJ's is CALEX going to get this year? This would really suck for the CALEX guys---especially since they were told the flow up had expired....

Bye Bye---General Lee

There are a group of 118 express guys that will go to CAL when CAL has recalled everyone and they need pilots. These guys get to go without interviews. Everyone junior to that up to I believe a mid '98 hire had to interview at CAL this past winter. That's right a carrier struggling to stay solvent with almost 500 on furlough conducted pilot interviews! My details might be a little off on this as I'm too junior to give a cr*p about the flowthrough (or flowdown as it has been to me). It's almost comical to see that express' seniority list is gradually becoming as confusing as CAL's mix of scabs, People Express guys, NY Air guys, Frontier guys, TIA guys, and full term strikers. Sorry if I might of missed somebody out there.

It does blow to have CAL guys coming back to express with our junior guys having no future at CAL. I personally don't want to see any flowthrough in our next contract unless it says that for every three pilots CAL needs, three will come from Express. By now though we have gotten used to it and to be honest with you I like having a lot of the flowbacks around. CAL and XJet management will one day be shocked to see just how militant these guys are towards Xjet's contract.

 

[COpilot]

Nimtz,

It does suck for you to have crews dropping on top of you. But I heard no complaining coming for you people when young pilots were flowing up to Boeings with little or no jet time.

I'll ask this question, when were you hired, did you not have, or understand the flow-through agreement when it was presented to prior to joining the airline? I know that many have thought one thing one day when it was good for them, then another the next day when they got hosed.

 

[captjim]

Nimtz,

It does suck for you to have crews dropping on top of you. But I heard no complaining coming for you people when young pilots were flowing up to Boeings with little or no jet time.

COpilot, I'll agree with your post to a certain degree. The flow through had the flow back provision. It does suck that guys are losing seniority and going on the street, yes that is something that should have been known.

I disagree with your "get to fly Boeing with little to no jet time" statement. You sir are way off base on that one. Every airline hires turboprop guys to fly their big bad Boeings and Airbus's. Besides some guy thats hired on the bottom of the list doesn't effect a pilot that's already one the list on bit. I think thats a useless argument.

 

[nimtz]

Nimtz,

I'll ask this question, when were you hired, did you not have, or understand the flow-through agreement when it was presented to prior to joining the airline? I know that many have thought one thing one day when it was good for them, then another the next day when they got hosed.

Dude first off chill out a little. Anytime you are being pushed down the list it sucks. It doesn't matter if its a CAL guy or Charles Lindbergh, it blows to lose seniority when the individual knocking you down wasn't on the list the previous month. You would be just a little frustrated too if you were in my shoes.

Please spare me the dressing down that we never b*tched when it worked the other way. The thing was designed to work when expess had about 700 pilots, not 2000 like we have now. So unfortunately for me, the junior people are paying the price for that now at express. By all means, let the cal guys come down on top of us. As I said before they are as committed to making express better as anyone. Yeah you're right that is what the contract says, but don't expect those getting bumped not to be a little unhappy especially since they will never see cal.

Thankfully there's a solution to this problem. The FTA will ends in '04 as per the contract. I hope the MEC doesn't fight to keep it in the future, because no 1:3 flow-up ratio will satisfy me after seeing the 3:3 flow down.

But I heard no complaining coming for you people when young pilots were flowing up to Boeings with little or no jet time.

Nice respect for your coworkers. I'm still looking around for these 'young pilots' since most of them flowed back to express. Most of the guys I see are late 30's with kids and a house payment. BTW, any guy that flies the 1900 as a captain for 3-4 years doesn't need your 'experienced jet time' endorsement to handle a boeing.

 

[PositiveRate]

So is XJET going ahead with the recall schedule?? Isn't there a class of recalls starting in early April...or is this postponed because of the new cuts at CAL?