Contact Approaches

[Jetsnake]

It's alright, no offense taken


Jetsnake

 

[FlyinBrian]

I wouldn't throw the circling approach in with the contact approach as being nearly as dangerous. As long as you follow the rules, you do have obstacle clearance on a cicling approach. This is assuming that you remain within the required distance for your category of aircraft, and that you do not descend below the MDA before you are in a position to make a normal landing.

 

[Focus]

Contact Approach----NO WAY!!!!!!

Get Real People......Weather changes can often be very unpredictable as we all know. There are entirely too many variables involved with requesting a contact approach that we as pilots can not ascertain in the midst of maneuvering an aircraft even at approach speed. Why take the risk of miscalculating what your mind tells you is safe when your wrestling with mother nature. FLY THE Published Approach!!!! The time you save on a contact approach may very well be the last memory you have as a company man. Id rather save my a** than save the company gas. Just my .02 bits. FLY SAFE

 

[Eric]

Thanks

Thanks for everyone's input and insight. All good responses and I didn't expect so many, so soon.

A Squared, I'm with you. Know where you are and how to operate in a non-radar environment. Just to let you know where I'm coming from, I earned my instrument rating in Florida, and we were lucky if we could get a full approach near our home airport, hence the vectors to final comment.

Thanks again, Eric

 

[surplus1]

I wouldn't throw the circling approach in with the contact approach as being nearly as dangerous.

Please don't take this as personal. It isn't. However, from my point of view, this is a safety issue and not just a matter of opinion.

On what exactly do you base that statement? Is it the textbook or the circling approaches actually performed by you in the real world?

As long as you follow the rules, you do have obstacle clearance on a cicling approach. This is assuming that you remain within the required distance for your category of aircraft, and that you do not descend below the MDA before you are in a position to make a normal landing.

Everything that you said in that paragraph is "technically correct". No argument there. Given that, why do you think most airlines (I would go as far as to say all reputable airlines) flying jet aircraft (and many flying propeller aircraft) restrict this manuever to VFR minima, i.e., 1000 and 3? Do you suspect there's a reason? If so what do you think that reason might be?

Take a look at the real world conditions that would generate the need for a circle. What are they? Is it a textbook scenario that you practice in the sim? What is the weather really like on the dark night that you undertake this exercise "for real"?

Is it windy and gusting? Is the air stable and smooth as glass or is it turbulent and bumpy? Is the visibility really what they say it is, in all areas of the circle, or just where they measure it? Is the ceiling flat, smooth and even or is it ragged? Is it raining, perhaps heavily or are there snow showers in the area? Is it snowing steadily or raining steadily or is it squall-y like? Is this happening in the day or at night? If it's at night, what is the lighting on the surface in the circling area? Lot's of city lights, some rural lights, no lights? Do the published minima change with these changing conditions or do they stay the same? And speaking of "categories", just how did you determine what category your aircraft is in?

What will you be able to keep "in sight" during the circle? Will it be the runway on which you intend to land? Will it be the airport environment (all of the time)? Will it be nothing (some of the time)? What is the terrain in the vicinity of the airport? Do you really know where those towers are? How can you really tell if you're 3/4 of a mile, 1 mile or 1 1/2 miles from the airport?

Will you be flying the aircraft by visual references outside of the cockpit during the circle? Will you be flying by instrument reference? Will you be doing some of both at the same time?

Are you really up on on exactly what you'll do for a missed approach from every position during the circle?

This manuever is difficult enough under ideal conditions. In most real-world conditions that would require a circle, it is highly conducive to spatial disorientation. It is one thing to be doing a circle in a light airplane and an entirely different thing to be manuevering a heavy transport five or six hundred feet off the ground in marginal weather while trying to control it half by visual reference and half by instrument reference.

Sorry to disagree with you, but I maintain that this is a dangerous manuever and should be avoided if at all possible. I won't go as far as to say "never do it", but I will say think twice before you circle. When you absouletly have to, raise your own minimums as much as you can; brief the manuever thoroughly before you begin it; exercise extreme caution throughout and, don't hesitate to "miss" if the slightest thing differs from your plan.

I'm far from being perfect or always right. However, my opinions on this item don't come from any book. They come from many approaches, in many different aircraft, in many places, over a very long time and pucker factors high enough to warrant a post-flight inspection of certain garments.

I'm sure there are lots of successful circles that we never hear anything about. There are also lots of accident statistics about those that went awry. I can't begin to remember them all but here's a few. No too long ago, a Gulfstream in Aspen. Quite a while ago, an L-188 in Ardmore, OK, and two (2) Convairs in Bradford, PA. That's just scratching the surface.

Be careful. The life you save will be your own. It's not as bad as a contact apporach, but there is no question in my mind that this manuever is dangerous.

The final objective of every flight is a safe landing at the end, not a demonstration of aeronautical skill.

 

[172driver]

Ok, here's a situation in which you might use a contact approach. On downwind, 2SM vis, Level 6 over the marker, you can see the airport or will be able to see it if you get a little closer. Wouldn't do it in anything heavy or fast though...