Contact Approaches

[surplus1]

Jetsnake,

I hope I am misunderstanding you and you are NOT implying that it's OK as long as you don't get caught? I just want to be sure I'm reading you correctly.

BTW, to all, you will never be "given" a contact approach by ATC. This is something you have to "request". My recommendation again is simple. DON'T.

I don't care whether it's in your 135 Ops Specs or you're Part 91 or the FAA doesn't exist.

The manuever is an unsafe procedure. DON'T. Whether you are legally dead or illegally dead makes no difference whatever. You're still dead.

While we're on the subject, another dangerous manuever is the "Circling Approach". Less dangerous to be sure, but still dangerous.

In jet equipment, most airlines do not allow this manuever in wheather that is less than 1000 and 3. They DO allow it in lower weather in propeller airplanes. Strange.

If you hit something in the process, trust me, it won't matter one bit whether your airplane is a jet or a prop job.

Please use extreme caution when making circling approaches in weather, particularly at night. It is virtually impossible to maintain visual contact with the airport environment during a circle in anything but a small airplane.

 

[Jetsnake]

You are correct, it is dangerous.

1000 and 3 if your 121 is still
ifi if your flying 121 as such in
a CRJ, that's why I say
if in doudt, go missed.

Jetsnake

 

[A Squared]

Jetsnake,

A couple of things:


>>>>>if you see the airport in IFR(IMC) conditions
you can accept a visual. YOUR OK!

That should be: "you can accept a contact approach". You need 1000 ft ceiling, and 3 miles vis to accept a visual. You probably knew that, but I just thought I'd clarify for thos who are a little unsure of the difference between visual and contact approaches.

>>>>It is not allowed in any 121 or 125 OP's spec's period.

No this is not correct, my carrier is authorized contact approaches. It's ops spec C076


For those who would characterize a contact approach as the last desperate act of a suicidal lunatic, a different viewpoint:

Used wisely, it can be a useful tool, especially in this day and age of automated weather observations. Frequently you as pilot are able to see in flight that the metrological conditions allow a safe visual approach, yet this is not reflected in the automated observations.

Example, a few weeks ago, I took a pleasure flight to an unattended airport with automated weather. The observed weather was clear below 12k and 3 miles visibility .... had been all day Hmmmm It was a nice day, and I could see the airport from 10 miles out or more. when I landed I walked over to the station and cleaned the cobwebs off the visibility sensors suddenly, the visibility jumped to "greater than 10 miles" .... now if i'd been flying there for work (and my airline does occasionaly go in there) and there had been just a few more cobwebs (say enough to make it 2 miles) we wouldn't have been able to accept a visual, but a contact approach would have done the trick .... or I suppose we could have flown the entire NDB approach in clear blue skies.

Another example, you can see the airport from 20 miles out at the MEA, but there's the remmnants of a lower layer hanging around the airport, just enough to make the reported ceiling 900 broken. These conditions exist, I've seen them. So, what do you do? fly an approach in VFR conditions, or get a contact approach? Me, I'll take the contact approach in a situation with good visibility. Dangerous? my opinion is not ... at the airport I'm thinking of, the highest obstruction anywhere withinn the 25 mile MSA circle, probaably for 50 miles, is 67 feet MSL ... that's right, MSL. There's nothing, no terrain, no trees, no structures. Under those circumstances, with 20 miles vis, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over descending to 800 feet and continuing inbound on a contact approach.

Perhaps where you fly, in your operations, your advice is good, I certainly wouldn't debate that, I don't fly there. But the whole world isn't exactly like where you fly. Don't make blanket generalizations without considering that.


regards

 

[Jetsnake]

You are also correct wise one,
But you must have flown into
ATL,LAX, SJC, SFO, and JFK
and have been given the visual
to follow traffic only to lose it in
the murky stuff below...

A FMS with a PFD and MFD is
very nice, it's rather hard with
rah data, meaning steam gauges.

Point taken my friend.

Jetsnake

 

[A Squared]

>>>>>But you must have flown into ATL,LAX, SJC, SFO, and JFK

Nope, avoid those places like the plauge ..... I don't trust air I can see.



>>>>>given the visual to follow traffic only to lose it in the murky stuff below...

Isn't that what you guys have TCAS for?


Regards

 

[Jetsnake]

Sorry, we don't have that in
F-16's...................................

Oooooop's, that's my weekend
job...

Jetsnake

 

[A Squared]

>>>>Oooooop's, that's my weekend job...

ahhh...must take the sting out of having to work weekends.....

 

[Jetsnake]

Hey Knob Lip's,

I've serverd my country for over 16 years.
4 of them being a grunt, so when I say
BITE ME, I mean good luck puss!!!

Waiting for the call!

Jetsnake

 

[TDTURBO]

While we're on the subject, another dangerous manuever is the "Circling Approach". Less dangerous to be sure, but still dangerous.

In jet equipment, most airlines do not allow this manuever in wheather that is less than 1000 and 3. They DO allow it in lower weather in propeller airplanes. Strange

Surplus1,

I remember the day after I received my instrument rating I flew from Chicago to the Bahamas, I was trying to make it to Ft. Peirce but I had a strong headwind. I called for an ammended clearence to Athens since everyplace within 400nm was below IFR mins. I shot the ILS and was told to circle. This on my first flight alone to an airport I had zero breifing time on in a place I had never been all the while being in solid IMC. It was right at minimums, give or take a few feet but what a way to brake in a new rating. I'll never forget the circling approach or Athens, great airport btw! No problem doing it since everything was fresh in my mind, I just had zero experience when I did it. Baptism by fire I guess.

 

[A Squared]

Uhhh, jetsnake,

not sure how to take your last post .... if that's a pi$$ed off reply, I wasn't yanking your chain, just being chatty.


take care