Consumerist: "Should a First Officer Make More Than 23k?" Ill informed Commenters

[Voice Of Reason]

Consumerist: "Should a First Officer Make More Than 23k?" Ill informed Commenters

http://consumerist.com/5259765/should-a-first-officer-make-more-than-23900-a-year

More of the usual idiocy from the commenters (public): (ie: F/O not "the PILOT," inability to separate regionals from majors, the Colgan F/O was a woman, therefore "glass ceiling," pilots only "work" 80 hrs a month since that is all they are paid for)...argh....Need some informed people over there...they often have idiotic posts about the airlines but this one takes the cake. Amazing how the "news" is created today in blogs, thus muddling the actual problem once the public actually does get some info...

 

[michael707767]

"Why don't these low-paid pilots just work in retail if it pays just as much? It appears that there is a surplus of pilots willing to work for low pay."

I read all the comments, but this one hits the nail on the head. As long as pilots are willing to take these jobs at the salaries they offer, then the pay is fine.

 

[blzr]

Good point. Most pilots out there that went the Regional rout started @ $19-$25k and worked there way up. There is an expectation that ONE day we will either upgrade or move on to a major and make more money. The bad part is that if you are a 10 year captain at a regional and making $80k and you get hired at FedEx or UPS, Delta or United, you have to take a SUBSTANTIAL pay cut the first year or two and then the pay gets up there again.

 

[hindsight2020]

I don't know, I read the thread and I found the "public" rather well-grounded and common-sensical...something our aspiring regional pilots lack sorely. Yeah there were hyperbolic posts and false analogies, but by and large most of these 'laymen' and paying public on there correctly pointed out the unwillingness of aspiring pilots to walk away from the proposition of making 25K-45K for the better part of a decade for the responsibility of undertaking the care of other people's lives for a couple hours at a time.

And I think the 'uninformed public' is right. My favorite one was when somebody offered the opinion that when the only way to gain the experience necessary was taking a 20K job you don't have a choice but to take it, the original poster roughly replied: 'I love to ride rollercoasters, but if they told me they would pay me $7/hr to do it professionally, I'd have to turn them down'. This is what regional pilots don't get. That they cover the sun with one hand and continue to profess that the undercompensation only lasts a couple of years and then it's money-time is just further dispossession talking.

For all the bootstrap bravado 20K-a-pop-pilots argue they possess as a function of their undercompensation, there sure is an awful lot of entitlement complex behind it. Nobody's entitled to anything in this market, and pilots are thick to the concept of being priced out of your dreams. Furthermore, by financing them all you do is shift the time curve to the right, but you don't positively effect anything. Pilots are not the only ones in this world who face the starving artist's dilema, I submit the rest of these 'uninformed public' posters are quite familiar with the idea of doing something you may come to detest to provide the money and time to do what you actually love to do that wouldn't pay the bills if pursued full-time. The difference is of course, we are talking about the lives of people in a high subsonic aluminum bus; it can't stop on the side of the road, pink flesh doesn't take well to 300IAS-0 in zero seconds, and there's no reverse gear on the thing. Flying should be a utility, it's already a commodity and you can't blame the "flying public" either for viewing this method of transportation as such.

The gig is up, scope relaxation, capacity constriction and cabotage will overtake whatever retirement upflow that the ocean of pilots on the street today are white-knuckle crosssing their fingers for starting 2013. There will be no pilot shortage and consequent pay raise. The best we can hope for, post-boomer generation, is to make the industry not gravitate to its present logical conclusion (cabotage) and make it an outright utility at the expense of these zero to hero dreamers and career changers, otherwise we'll just continue to allow hungry marginally qualified button pushers to kill people 50 at a time for an economically insolvent dream of theirs, until the opportunity cost for the average consumer of facing likely death is higher than the 'indignity' of driving everywhere. This madness has to stop and cutting off the student loan racket is a huge remarkable step towards achieving said goal.

 

[thepotato232]

By and large, I'd say The Consumerist has a more informed readership on average than, say, Flightinfo. For those who don't feel like wading through the muck:

What's happened is that as an industry they've under-cut themselves to death.

No matter how hard an airline tries to differentiate itself the consumer still makes all decisions driven by price.

I am a web software developer making considerably more than that (by several times)... and I would hope a pilot would make significantly more than me.

The exchange between ekthesy (not a pilot, arguing in our favor) vs. Esquire99 (commercial pilot, laissez-faire type) really drove home the whole "we're our own worst enemy" idea.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

By and large, I'd say The Consumerist has a more informed readership on average than, say, Flightinfo. For those who don't feel like wading through the muck:



The exchange between ekthesy (not a pilot, arguing in our favor) vs. Esquire99 (commercial pilot, laissez-faire type) really drove home the whole "we're our own worst enemy" idea.

Don't believe for a second that Esquire99 is a pilot....he has the exact script as the likes of B*9Fly*r (Ford & Harrison lackey for those who don't know) who spends his entire workday posting the exact drivel all over the internet to manipulate public perception (and paid handsomely by the airlines to do so). That's why more real pilots are needed over there to dispel his Cr@p and the other fallacies that most certainly ARE on the comment section over there (subject matter as listed in my first post).

 

[WayBack]

The bad part is that if you are a 10 year captain at a regional and making $80k and you get hired at FedEx or UPS, Delta or United, you have to take a SUBSTANTIAL pay cut the first year or two and then the pay gets up there again.

And this is where ALPA has failed once again. They need to get this where if you transfer airlines, you start getting paid based on 121 experience.
Any other profesion, such as an engineer, when applying to a new company can negotiate pay. Why the hell are pilots any different?

 

[AC560]

Any other profesion, such as an engineer, when applying to a new company can negotiate pay. Why the hell are pilots any different?

Because airline pilots belong to unions and in unions the only thing which impacts compensation is length of service?

 

[machophil]

I notice the military guys are the ones blaming pilots for the crappy pay of regional life. Let me pose this question...

If your military benefits had been a fraction of what they were, would you still have served? Why?

You probably answered 'yes' because you love being in the armed forces, you love the duty-bound nature, and it prepares you for broader professional experiences. But aren't you glad the military isn't using your love of the profession against you?

Most regional guys LOVE the civil aviation profession for all the reasons you loved the armed forces. The difference is we're being subjugated simply because we're loyal professionals who love our jobs.

Prostitutes only work if the price is right. Professionals show up to work no matter the personal cost. But does that mean professionals shouldn't make a good wage?

 

[Herkdrv]

I notice the military guys are the ones blaming pilots for the crappy pay of regional life. Let me pose this question...

If your military benefits had been a fraction of what they were, would you still have served? Why?

You probably answered 'yes' because you love being in the armed forces, you love the duty-bound nature, and it prepares you for broader professional experiences. But aren't you glad the military isn't using your love of the profession against you?

Most regional guys LOVE the civil aviation profession for all the reasons you loved the armed forces. The difference is we're being subjugated simply because we're loyal professionals who love our jobs.

Prostitutes only work if the price is right. Professionals show up to work no matter the personal cost. But does that mean professionals shouldn't make a good wage?

Really? Then why do pilots get offered substantial bonuses, health care bennies, retirement for life if you do 20, and countless other carrots? I'm not arguing the fact that most who serve have a deep sense of patriotism, and sacrifice a lot in their lives. But lets call a spade a spade. The military has realized they need to retain their investments and have attempted to just that. I seriously doubt that if the armed forces were to nickel and dime their pilots with slave wages you would see any of us stay in.