Congratulations Chautauqua

[BlueCanoe]

And, I believe it is true (?) that you guys have hired our furloughs without having them resign their Delta numbers. IF that is true, then Thanks Again!!! It will be remembered....(along with ASA)

Bye Bye--General Lee

IT IS TRUE!!

No one has had to resign an employee #. I've flown with at least 2 DAL, one TWAA pilot and others. They are all waiting on recall.

J4J guys come in on the bottom of the list just like eveyone else, but 1/2 are CA and 1/2 are FO, and tied to N#, if I remember right.

 

[RegionalFA]

RegionalFA,

You have been given bad information. CHQ j4j pilots are hired as both CA's and FO's. 50/50.

Okay then. I've only met any J4J guys who were FO's... but now that I think about it, I remember that there was discussion about them only flying together and such... so there would have to be some CA's. (even if that's not exactly how it's working currently).


I spoke too soon. My understanding was what I stated, however, now that I've gotten some sleep (**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** east coast weather) I'm remembering more. I apologise.

 

[the turtle]

Check this out:

at Mesa, you can have a US mainline J4J's captain flying with a United furlough FO in a Mesa CRJ!

 

[P38JLightning]

oh really?

>>I, along with many many others, do not forget about them, and we hope they will be back soon. We don't just forget people, and we will NOT forget about people who help our own. When hiring eventually starts up again some day, there will be many of us who will contact the people who do the hiring, (usually HR people and retired Captains) and TELL them about who stepped forward and provided our guys HELP when they NEEDED it. That is a promise.

Bye Bye--General Lee


So General,

Does that "promise" include the Comair pilots who called their status reps to oppose our MEC's stance, walked in resumes of furloughed Delta furloughed pilots, and contributed to your furlough emergency relief and secret santa funds, as well as the RA fund?

Or will CHQ pilots who didn't actively do JACK (other than under bid Comair) or lifted a finger to help get the bennefits of your "promise"?

Oh and the military pilots and Delta interns at Comair will still get the blackball, won't they?

Yeah I bet your furoughs are proud all right.

 

[acaTerry]

So bitter.......So angry.......

 

[crj579]

SERENITY NOW!

 

[embraerdriver]

bump

 

[OldManPilot]

Re: oh really?

>>
Or will CHQ pilots who didn't actively do JACK (other than under bid Comair) or lifted a finger to help get the bennefits of your "promise"?

Yeah I bet your furoughs are proud all right.

Wow, during training did I miss the part where I get to decide on what CHQ bids for flying? I thought I was just a working stiff.


Hmmm, angry, bitter, yup they will be waiting in line to hire an attitude like that. Chill Bro' we are all in this together... They bid em' we fly em'.

 

[RegionalFA]

Re: Re: oh really?

Wow, during training did I miss the part where I get to decide on what CHQ bids for flying? I thought I was just a working stiff.


Hmmm, angry, bitter, yup they will be waiting in line to hire an attitude like that. Chill Bro' we are all in this together... They bid em' we fly em'.

that's right. The pilots get to pick the flying bids but have nothing to do with hiring processes. You know, it's like landings. The Plane lands itself until there's a bad landing... and those are all the pilot's fault.

I think you were napping during that part of class.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Blah, blah, blah.

I'm bored...

 

[OldManPilot]

Oopps,

What I meant was that Pilots do not get to help the Airline Bid with Carriers for their flying.....

Not line bidding... That Part I do remember from Training!!!!

The simple point I am trying to get across. We all love flying, and we all have loyalty to whomever we fly for. That is good, but we do not need to attack each other. We are all in this doing the same job.

Let's all join hands and sing "We are the World".

 

[RegionalFA]

Oopps,

What I meant was that Pilots do not get to help the Airline Bid with Carriers for their flying.....

Not line bidding... That Part I do remember from Training!!!!

The simple point I am trying to get across. We all love flying, and we all have loyalty to whomever we fly for. That is good, but we do not need to attack each other. We are all in this doing the same job.

Let's all join hands and sing "We are the World".

my comment to yours was all sarcasm. I thought yours was as well.

I thought you were noting the irony of how much control you have one moment and then the next you aren't to be rewarded because you dont' have control. Hence the landing example.

 

[P38JLightning]

hey old man

>>Wow, during training did I miss the part where I get to decide on what CHQ bids for flying? I thought I was just a working stiff.


Hmmm, angry, bitter, yup they will be waiting in line to hire an attitude like that. Chill Bro' we are all in this together... They bid em' we fly em'.<<


Old Man,

The only thing I'm "angry" or "bitter" about is Chautauqua pilots accepting an agreement that I believe from the very onset of negotiations intended to be "Comair minus."

As far as my reply to the General's comments, any "anger and bitterness" implied in that reply was strictly aimed at the General's misdirected blackball "promise" of any non Military pilot, non intern, non "my daddy is a Delta 777 Captain", non PFT Comair line pilots. (Those other categories will obviously never be affected by the General's blackball promise.)

To say that all Comair pilots are bad (except the "exempt" categories of course) and that all Cuautauqua pilots are good in regards to who will get hired at Delta in the future is pretty stupid, IMHO. I realise you may disagree with me because you want the preference of his "promise", but if you look at it objectively, you can clearly see what the general is lobbying for is way off the mark.

As far as us all being in this together, I agree with you, to a point. We clearly ARE in this together. We do the exact same job in the exact same equipment doing the exact same thing. But standing together goes way beyond saying "how's it going" in the terminal and accepting eachother's jumpseaters.

When one pilot group negotiates an agreement that is a comfortable amount (for management) BELOW another "brother" pilot group's agreement ("cost structure" for you management types) for the sole purpose of enabling one's management to underbid a "brother" pilot group, because the pilot group in negotiations really really wants the 18 month upgrade, well that's pretty much being in it for one's self now isn't it?

The fact is that the Chautauqua pilots chose to underbid the Comair pilots. They refused to raise the bar. Am I angry with them personaly? No, because there hasn't been a single "regional" pilot group with the stones to fight for "Comair plus." Management has sold most of us on the "In the post 9-11 world ANY improvement is enough" and we've (as a group) bought it.

Sure we are in a depressed aviation economy right now, but look around you and see who'se profitable. Look who'se VERY profitable. The "majors" need the "regionals" big time. And they can't afford to lose ANY feed.

Remember when AirWisky and ACA were in a bidding war for UAL code? Both managements convinced each other to take concessions to bid against eachother. When the dust settled, they both cut their contracts a similar amount, and were back to square one as far as cost relative to one another. All the while UAL couldn't afford to lose both of them (or even one for that matter) so if they would have stood together neither would have had to have taken cuts. If they then stood fast and insisted on Comair 70 seat pay (or God forbid "Comair plus!") then SkyWest wouldn't have felt the "need" to selfishly cut the knees from under the rest of us. Again, just to get growth.


And so it goes with Comair and Chautauqua and everyone else for that matter. We were very recently approached with management's promise to "lock in" ALL future DCI growth (that includes whatever you might get) if only we took some concessions. We told them no way. According to the DOT we are around 50% more profitable than Jet Blue (in terms of total quarterly profits) which is the industry's biggest sucess story. Where's the NEED for concessions?

There isn't any "need" and management knows it. But they thought they'd try because they see a growing trend of pilots underbidding eachother for growth opportunities. They thought it might work here. It didn't. We will accept the consequences from not caving, but we will never condone the actions of pilot groups who underbid us for the sole purpose of getting DCI growth.

As for you not being a part of all this because you were recently hired, again I'm not "angry or bitter" towards you. I know not all pilots can (or should) work for the same company. There's nothing wrong with you flying for Chautauqua. There IS something very wrong with pilot groups willing to stab eachother in the back for growth by any means necessary.

I was very disheartened to see Mesaba cave like that. If you're unwilling or afraid to strike to get substantialy more than a middle of the road contract then don't vote to strike. Look at NWA's books. They never could have afforded to bleed 600 canceled flights a day for several months. You had them by the short hairs and you let them go.

Our (all "regional" pilot group's) only hope now rests with ASA and Continental Express. Delta has some cash to bleed, but not just to avoid "Comair plus" a few percent. And Coex (wholly owned or not) has Continental backed into a corner. They have almost no cash in the bank, yet are well on the road to excellent long term recovery. They can't afford to throw that all away just so Bethune will get a few high fives at his last ATA meeting before he retires.

If it drags on into next year, there's no way the new guy (whoever that may be) will start off his tenure by plunging CAL into a bankruptsy that could easily have been avoided by simply authorizing the funds for Comair plus 1% in pilot crew costs.

So Old Man, no one's mad at you (at least not me) and I do believe we are in this together. I don't believe we as collective pilot groups have been demonstrating that the last couple years though. A little solidarity goes a long way.

Someone, anyone, please raise the bar.

 

[OldManPilot]

Are we at CHQ proud of our new contract? No, I would not say we are. We are however satisfied TEMPORARALY with being able to make improvements in all areas of our current work environment.

When our contract becomes ammendable (3 yrs from now) we will CONTINUE to make improvments.

Speaking now for myself, I am a bit tired of the chest beating, we are better than you attitude because we do not have your contract. We did what we felt we could.

I was proud of our Comair brothers when you stood the line for your contract; however, in no way was that econimical environment in any way comprable with current negotiations.

You do not take concessions. That is GREAT!!!

We make Improvments. That too is GREAT!!!

You cannot make comparisons, for your apples are not the same as our oranges.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Wheres the van?]

Ivory Tower north of the field!

Do you seriously believe Comair would have gotten the same contract post 9/11? While I do commend the stones involved in going out for 89days,I doubt strongly that this option would have been exercised had mothership Delta not beamed you up months previous. When you speak of the unter-mention who lower the bar please consider these facts.

Obviously these points will be lost on you,so I shall sit back for know and watch how you achieve above industry increase during the next contract.This will be the thru test of your metal!

 

[FlyComAirJets]

You might want to consider another conclusion to your previous assertions:

First of all, taking it on the chin now with the expectation that three years you will CONTINUE to make improvements is fallacious. All it shows management is that in three years, you will cave in again, after all, you did it once before.

Second of all, blaming an inability to raise the bar due to the economy overlooks one simple fact, it is not pilot solidarity that is affected. It is management's bargaining strength that is weakened. 9/11 made every airline desperate to deal.

Sorry if that seems like chest beating. We're not the REGIONAL AIRLINE OF THE YEAR, you are. How 'bout acting like it?.

 

[chqcapt75]

Hey P38,
When a FO upgrades at Comair, do they become a first year Captain or a Captain with their current time with the company?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Is it true that CHQ furloughd out of seniority after 9/11?

 

[P38JLightning]

upgrade seniority

>>Hey P38,
When a FO upgrades at Comair, do they become a first year Captain or a Captain with their current time with the company?<<

chqcpt75,

Your seniority carries over. For example, if a 6 year FO upgrades they become a 6 year Captain at 6 year longevity pay. That's how it is at Chautauqua too isn't it?

 

[Stingman]

Is it true that CHQ furloughd out of seniority after 9/11?

No, they did not furlough anyone. They did however FIRE 125 pilots, most of them being Saab drivers. Most of the jet trained pilots were not fired. This way they circumvented the seniority list.