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Compressor Stall?

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Actually, the airflow does speed up and "accelerate" in terms of both velocity and direction, in the compressor section. It is in the diffuser section that airflow slows and pressure rises, prepatory to introduction to the burner cans.

Ram air rise begins the moment the aircraft begins moving down the runway, and hits an equal point for most engines about 70 KIAS. Above that speed, ram air increases inlet pressure such that air is being "crammed down it's throat" instead of it "sucking." In reality, both are happening, but forward speed is creating an increase in inlet air pressure well above ambient from about 70 KIAS in most aircraft engine installations, on up.

"Ambient" for most engines isn't the outside pressure, as we would normally think of the term ambient. Turbine engines work by doing one of two (or both) things...producing torque to move things, and/or producing thrust. In either case, many engines utilize pressure probes as part of the fuel metering system or fuel control unit which make comparisons between inlet air pressure and air pressure in other parts of the engine. These are referred to as pressure stations. A few, but not many, aircraft also referece true ambient air pressure, though it's meaningless for most installations. A few use a separate external pitot tube to sample undisturbed (relative) airflow, but these also account for ram air rise, and the "ambient" that the engine sees isn't what we'd see from an independent gauge outside the aircraft somewhere. It's a relative term, and ambient to a jet engine can be considered the pressure inside the inlet prior to introduction to the first stages of the compressor. In some jet engines using EPR, this is the first element of the pressure ratio, or comparison between what the engine is taking in and what it's putting out. In short, it's the basis for the engine knowing how much power it's producing, and how to regulate it.

Some stator vanes are variable, but most are fixed.
 
Nice video of a compressor stall.

avbug said:
Actually, the airflow does speed up and "accelerate" in terms of both velocity and direction, in the compressor section. It is in the diffuser section that airflow slows and pressure rises, prepatory to introduction to the burner cans.

Ram air rise begins the moment the aircraft begins moving down the runway, and hits an equal point for most engines about 70 KIAS. Above that speed, ram air increases inlet pressure such that air is being "crammed down it's throat" instead of it "sucking." In reality, both are happening, but forward speed is creating an increase in inlet air pressure well above ambient from about 70 KIAS in most aircraft engine installations, on up.

I'm far from an expert on any of these things but I'm having a hard time reconciling these statements against my, admittedly, "theoretical" knowledge and personal experience.

I'll tell you why I *think* there's more 'sucking' than 'cramming' during the T/O roll. Sometimes, on very humid days you can see moisture condense in the inlet. That indicates to me a strictly Bernoullian condition where the pressure is dropping along with temperature.

As you know, (I only mention it for those who are new to jet theory) a high bypass engine develops most of its thrust from the fan at low altitudes. It's operating like a huge ducted turbo-prop. In other words, it's taking a large mass of air and accelerating it backwards.

Therefore, I'm visualizing a big low pressure area in front of the compressor fan and a large airmass being sucked in until the engine reaches a cruise regime and the laws of high speed aerodynamics take over (Compressibility).

I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative here (after all we're not talking about the President). I'm here to learn as much as to teach so if there's some gap in my knowledge I'd certainly appreciate it if someone points it out...

...that said...

...I'm still fairly convinced the air flow *in general* MUST slow down in the compressor section, otherwise how in the world would it ever get compressed?!?!?!?!

Teach me something.
 
...I'm still fairly convinced the air flow *in general* MUST slow down in the compressor section, otherwise how in the world would it ever get compressed?!?!?!?!

The airflow (velocity) in the compressor section is regulated by the use of stator vanes to maintain a relatively constant velocity after entering the compressor section. As the rotors rotate, they increase both the pressure and velocity of the air.

The stators do three things.
1. Slow the airflow off of the rotors.
2. Increase the pressure just a little bit more.
3. Smooth the airflow so it has very little "rotation" (spiraling slip stream).

The compressor section itself is designed like a venturi to utilize bernoulis principal but since the air cannot speed up due to the stators, the air is further compressed (restricted).




au
 
Hey guys, if you want a good rundown on compressor stalls, read "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators" and "Fly the Wing".

In a macroscopic sense, you want uniform airflow (uniform velocity in speed and direction) reaching the first stage compressor. Whatever produces non-uniform flow, high TAS+altitude+AOA, damage or contamination of inlets, screwed up stators, etc. may lead to a compressor stall. Non uniform flow, means one part of your compressor may be stalled (cavitating), and is no longer able to sustain a pressure barrier. Also, if pressure inside the engine exceeds the ability of the compressor to...uh...compress, you can get stall surge. For example, a surge valve failure can lead to stall-surge although airflow reaching the compressor is more or less uniform in property.
 
I know compressor stalls can chew up an engine internally, anyone know if it's an automatic removal from wing if an engine has a compressor stall?
 
No, it's not an automatic removal from the wing if there's a compressor stall. A company may institute such a policy, but I've never seen it, and I've never seen any engine manufacturer that dictates engine removal or overhaul due to a compresor stall.

Things associated with the compressor stall may dictate removal or teardown. An engine can easily overtemp when airflow changes or reverses, and severe surging, backfiring, and stalling can damage vanes, stators, discs, blades, and crack or burn through burner cans, as well as even damage the engine pylon or mounting webbing and structure.

An engine experiencing a low grade compressor stall may be run at lower power settings in some cases, rather than being shut down, if the power is needed...reducing the power to the point that the hooting, surging, or other indications goes away, may permit continued operation so long as other signs of trouble aren't present.

Each airframe and engine manufacturer will prescribe specific special inspections that may be warranted under certain conditions...eg, hard landing inspections, lightening inspections, and hot start inspections. Hard surging or stalling may also warrant a particular inspeciton, or just a general maintenance investigation.
 

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