Compass

[General Lee]

Gee, kina like what you guys did with the Mesaba flow, and all of Freedom's flying?

That was the deal, 109 or whatever flowups allowed. And all of Freedom's flying? I don't remember that one.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flyer1015]

So who officially ended the flowup deal, but kept the flowdown deal intact? Delta management? Or DALPA?

 

[flyboyike]

So who officially ended the flowup deal, but kept the flowdown deal intact? Delta management? Or DALPA?

What Delta taketh away, Delta taketh away.

 

[General Lee]

So who officially ended the flowup deal, but kept the flowdown deal intact? Delta management? Or DALPA?

You mean with Mesaba? Only people flowed UP, not down, which was a good deal overall for them. People left, didn't get furloughed at DL, moved on with life to bigger and better things, and people still at Mesaba got to move up. Sounds like a great deal for them. Then, any FLOW DOWN is cancelled. Hmmmmm. I don't think the flow ups had to leave DL. Sounds like again, the MESABA people got a better deal. Compass was sold to TSA, and according to the contract, would lose the ability to flow up or down at that point. ALPA negotiated to keep the original guys at Compass the ability to flow up, and flow down at the exact number. I don't see that as a bad thing, it is a win win for everyone there, and going into the job everyone now knows what the deal is. As original Compass people continue to move over to DL, the other Compass people get to move up the ladder, and they can still try to interview at Delta if they wish (if they get an interview just like everyone else out there). Sounds like a win win on the Compass deal, and a win then lose on the Mesaba deal. Are you sure the flow down at Compass is unlimited, or the exact amount that can flow up can flow down? You say it is the gift that keeps giving, but there would be a certain amount of Compass people that can and WILL flow up, which is something you aren't seeing.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Jar Jar]

I already explained that ALPA/DALPA/DAL/TSH figured out that a flow-down being intact results in a flow-thru being intact. These 4 parties determined that to be the case. I don't agree with it but they came to that conclusion because it allowed DAL to keep the 76 seat capacity long term.

This matters because as long as a flow-thru (aka flow-down as explained above) is intact then the 76 seat capacity remains. If the flow-thru is not intact, delta loses the ability to outsource 36 76seat airframes. This was in the NWA section 1 and carried over in the merger.

 

[General Lee]

I already explained that ALPA/DALPA/DAL/TSH figured out that a flow-down being intact results in a flow-thru being intact. These 4 parties determined that to be the case. I don't agree with it but they came to that conclusion because it allowed DAL to keep the 76 seat capacity long term.

This matters because as long as a flow-thru (aka flow-down as explained above) is intact then the 76 seat capacity remains. If the flow-thru is not intact, delta loses the ability to outsource 36 76seat airframes. This was in the NWA section 1 and carried over in the merger.

Well ok then. ALPA/DALPA/DAL/TSH determined that it made better business sense to throw it away. DAL wanted better control of hiring, Dalpa wanted the original Compass guys to still get their flow up, TSH wanted the planes and feed contract. Yes, they didn't dump those 36 planes, and maybe Dalpa got reasons why it could hurt the company if those planes were going away (isn't that leverage? Why didn't they use it????). The fact is the cap or limit on the number of 70/76 seat RJs is still there, and a contract is still coming up for renewal here shortly. Maybe there was a deal worked out, or maybe ALPA screwed that up too. You just never know these days..... Regardless, the Compass guys who were there originally have the ability to come to DL without an interview, and that's good for them.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Jar Jar]

Well ok then. ALPA/DALPA/DAL/TSH determined that it made better business sense to throw it away. DAL wanted better control of hiring, Dalpa wanted the original Compass guys to still get their flow up, TSH wanted the planes and feed contract. Yes, they didn't dump those 36 planes, and maybe Dalpa got reasons why it could hurt the company if those planes were going away (isn't that leverage? Why didn't they use it????). The fact is the cap or limit on the number of 70/76 seat RJs is still there, and a contract is still coming up for renewal here shortly. Maybe there was a deal worked out, or maybe ALPA screwed that up too. You just never know these days..... Regardless, the Compass guys who were there originally have the ability to come to DL without an interview, and that's good for them.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Yea they don't interview at all..


Nothing like the 75 question aero/121/atp knowledge exam, 200 question mmpi, and a cognitive skills test to be followed by a panel interview and a full medical including ekg.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Yea they don't interview at all..


Nothing like the 75 question aero/121/atp knowledge exam, 200 question mmpi, and a cognitive skills test to be followed by a panel interview and a full medical including ekg.

That's the current structure of the Compass interview and has been for a little while.

 

[Flyer1015]

Nothing like the 75 question aero/121/atp knowledge exam, 200 question mmpi, and a cognitive skills test to be followed by a panel interview and a full medical including ekg.

Oh what? No tryout required of the double-breasted jacket as part of the interview process? How will they ever figure out if one looks good enough or not?

 

[On Your Six]

Oh what? No tryout required of the double-breasted jacket as part of the interview process? How will they ever figure out if one looks good enough or not?

You need to apply for ATL lav dumper. You sound like you'd be good at it, since you are mostly full of s^%#.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[titans10]

NWA LOA 2008-01:
The right of any company pilot to Flow Down to MSA, or MSA pilot to
Flow Up to NWA, pursuant to the terms of this Letter of Agreement, shall
be effective only so long as MSA remains an Affiliate of the Company,
provided the parties will, prior to the termination of the Flow through
rights referenced herein, meet and confer for the purpose of discussing
whether continuation or modification of this Flow Through Agreement
would be appropriate given the circumstances at that time.

From the NWA CBA:
The term “Affiliate” means (i) NAC, (ii) any subsidiary, parent or division of the Company or NAC or any subsidiary, parent or division of either a parent or subsidiary of the Company or NAC or (iii) any entity that controls or manages NAC or the Company or is controlled by or managed by NAC or the Company.

I still think there is a flow down option of 109 from the mesaba deal. I believe there was a side letter done when they were sold.

 

[Explosive]

I still think there is a flow down option of 109 from the mesaba deal. I believe there was a side letter done when they were sold.

There were 2 side letters regarding the MSA flow: LOAs 23 & 25. The flow down was not protected, but DL agreed to take on 108 MSA pilots.

Here's from the negotiator's notepad...

Background regarding Mesaba
Letter of Agreement 2008-01 -- Mesaba Flow Through Agreement of the PWA and Letter of Agreement #36 -- Flow Through Agreement of the Mesaba CBA both provide for termination of flow up and flow down rights with the loss of affiliate status of Mesaba. As a result, the flow down rights for pilots furloughed from Delta ceased with the sale of Mesaba. The MEC ratified Letter of Agreement #23 -- Mesaba Interim Flow Through on July 30, 2010. This agreement extended the flow provisions at Mesaba until September 1, 2010, and allowed for negotiations to seek the current agreement -- Letter of Agreement #25.
Letter of Agreement #25
This LOA is a four-party agreement between the managements and pilot groups of Delta and Mesaba that contains the following provisions:

Letter of Agreement 2006-10 -- Feeder Carrier Hiring remains in effect and unchanged

108 pilots on the Mesaba seniority list will be offered the opportunity to flow.

Flow up rights for the 108 Mesaba pilots continue in effect if all or part of the Mesaba seniority list is merged with that of another carrier. Should this occur, all parties will meet to accommodate and extend these flow rights.

Flow up rights for the 108 Mesaba pilots will end if Mesaba is sold and is no longer an affiliate of Pinnacle Airlines Corp. Should this occur, all parties will meet to determine how to continue flow.

 

[Flyer1015]

You need to apply for ATL lav dumper. You sound like you'd be good at it, since you are mostly full of s^%#.


Godspeed!


OYS

Actually if I was full of s^%# like you say, I couldn't be a lav dumper could I? I'm already full. You, on the other hand, could certainly fit that job, being that hide behind two different names and pretend to be somebody you're not.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Excuse me General, if I was to start at Compass tomorrow, I get NO flowthrough rights to Delta. However, if for some reason Delta had to furlough, they would come straight to Compass and displace me out of the left seat, the right seat as well (furlough for me). And what do I get in return for this? The Delta flowthrough program for Compass ended in Summer 2010 once they were sold off. In fairness, the flowback provisions should end the day after the last Compass pilot has flowed up. After that day, you tell me, what incentive does Compass have to take Delta furlough flowbacks? More importantly, what do I (as a Compass pilot) have to gain by having the constant threat of Delta flowbacks, even after all the Compass flowups are already gone? It is interesting that the flowback ended for those after Summer 2010, but the flowback provisions will continue indefinitely. Hence, the gift that keeps on giving.


And don't worry. If I got hired at Emirates, I'd far out-earn what I'd make at Delta. And a better pension, too. How's that 32.5% paycut working out? See, I can be a do**he too.

Hate to burst your bubble bro, but I've been in the sandpit 20 years, while I'm quite happy, never compare a JOB here with a CAREER at Delta...too many reasons to list...

 

[General Lee]

Hate to burst your bubble bro, but I've been in the sandpit 20 years, while I'm quite happy, never compare a JOB here with a CAREER at Delta...too many reasons to list...

DOH! I still think Flyer1015 would be happier out there.


Bye Bye---General Lee