Compass

[General Lee]

I already explained that ALPA/DALPA/DAL/TSH figured out that a flow-down being intact results in a flow-thru being intact. These 4 parties determined that to be the case. I don't agree with it but they came to that conclusion because it allowed DAL to keep the 76 seat capacity long term.

This matters because as long as a flow-thru (aka flow-down as explained above) is intact then the 76 seat capacity remains. If the flow-thru is not intact, delta loses the ability to outsource 36 76seat airframes. This was in the NWA section 1 and carried over in the merger.

Well ok then. ALPA/DALPA/DAL/TSH determined that it made better business sense to throw it away. DAL wanted better control of hiring, Dalpa wanted the original Compass guys to still get their flow up, TSH wanted the planes and feed contract. Yes, they didn't dump those 36 planes, and maybe Dalpa got reasons why it could hurt the company if those planes were going away (isn't that leverage? Why didn't they use it????). The fact is the cap or limit on the number of 70/76 seat RJs is still there, and a contract is still coming up for renewal here shortly. Maybe there was a deal worked out, or maybe ALPA screwed that up too. You just never know these days..... Regardless, the Compass guys who were there originally have the ability to come to DL without an interview, and that's good for them.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Jar Jar]

Well ok then. ALPA/DALPA/DAL/TSH determined that it made better business sense to throw it away. DAL wanted better control of hiring, Dalpa wanted the original Compass guys to still get their flow up, TSH wanted the planes and feed contract. Yes, they didn't dump those 36 planes, and maybe Dalpa got reasons why it could hurt the company if those planes were going away (isn't that leverage? Why didn't they use it????). The fact is the cap or limit on the number of 70/76 seat RJs is still there, and a contract is still coming up for renewal here shortly. Maybe there was a deal worked out, or maybe ALPA screwed that up too. You just never know these days..... Regardless, the Compass guys who were there originally have the ability to come to DL without an interview, and that's good for them.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Yea they don't interview at all..


Nothing like the 75 question aero/121/atp knowledge exam, 200 question mmpi, and a cognitive skills test to be followed by a panel interview and a full medical including ekg.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Yea they don't interview at all..


Nothing like the 75 question aero/121/atp knowledge exam, 200 question mmpi, and a cognitive skills test to be followed by a panel interview and a full medical including ekg.

That's the current structure of the Compass interview and has been for a little while.

 

[Flyer1015]

Nothing like the 75 question aero/121/atp knowledge exam, 200 question mmpi, and a cognitive skills test to be followed by a panel interview and a full medical including ekg.

Oh what? No tryout required of the double-breasted jacket as part of the interview process? How will they ever figure out if one looks good enough or not?

 

[On Your Six]

Oh what? No tryout required of the double-breasted jacket as part of the interview process? How will they ever figure out if one looks good enough or not?

You need to apply for ATL lav dumper. You sound like you'd be good at it, since you are mostly full of s^%#.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[titans10]

NWA LOA 2008-01:
The right of any company pilot to Flow Down to MSA, or MSA pilot to
Flow Up to NWA, pursuant to the terms of this Letter of Agreement, shall
be effective only so long as MSA remains an Affiliate of the Company,
provided the parties will, prior to the termination of the Flow through
rights referenced herein, meet and confer for the purpose of discussing
whether continuation or modification of this Flow Through Agreement
would be appropriate given the circumstances at that time.

From the NWA CBA:
The term “Affiliate” means (i) NAC, (ii) any subsidiary, parent or division of the Company or NAC or any subsidiary, parent or division of either a parent or subsidiary of the Company or NAC or (iii) any entity that controls or manages NAC or the Company or is controlled by or managed by NAC or the Company.

I still think there is a flow down option of 109 from the mesaba deal. I believe there was a side letter done when they were sold.

 

[Explosive]

I still think there is a flow down option of 109 from the mesaba deal. I believe there was a side letter done when they were sold.

There were 2 side letters regarding the MSA flow: LOAs 23 & 25. The flow down was not protected, but DL agreed to take on 108 MSA pilots.

Here's from the negotiator's notepad...

Background regarding Mesaba
Letter of Agreement 2008-01 -- Mesaba Flow Through Agreement of the PWA and Letter of Agreement #36 -- Flow Through Agreement of the Mesaba CBA both provide for termination of flow up and flow down rights with the loss of affiliate status of Mesaba. As a result, the flow down rights for pilots furloughed from Delta ceased with the sale of Mesaba. The MEC ratified Letter of Agreement #23 -- Mesaba Interim Flow Through on July 30, 2010. This agreement extended the flow provisions at Mesaba until September 1, 2010, and allowed for negotiations to seek the current agreement -- Letter of Agreement #25.
Letter of Agreement #25
This LOA is a four-party agreement between the managements and pilot groups of Delta and Mesaba that contains the following provisions:

Letter of Agreement 2006-10 -- Feeder Carrier Hiring remains in effect and unchanged

108 pilots on the Mesaba seniority list will be offered the opportunity to flow.

Flow up rights for the 108 Mesaba pilots continue in effect if all or part of the Mesaba seniority list is merged with that of another carrier. Should this occur, all parties will meet to accommodate and extend these flow rights.

Flow up rights for the 108 Mesaba pilots will end if Mesaba is sold and is no longer an affiliate of Pinnacle Airlines Corp. Should this occur, all parties will meet to determine how to continue flow.

 

[Flyer1015]

You need to apply for ATL lav dumper. You sound like you'd be good at it, since you are mostly full of s^%#.


Godspeed!


OYS

Actually if I was full of s^%# like you say, I couldn't be a lav dumper could I? I'm already full. You, on the other hand, could certainly fit that job, being that hide behind two different names and pretend to be somebody you're not.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Excuse me General, if I was to start at Compass tomorrow, I get NO flowthrough rights to Delta. However, if for some reason Delta had to furlough, they would come straight to Compass and displace me out of the left seat, the right seat as well (furlough for me). And what do I get in return for this? The Delta flowthrough program for Compass ended in Summer 2010 once they were sold off. In fairness, the flowback provisions should end the day after the last Compass pilot has flowed up. After that day, you tell me, what incentive does Compass have to take Delta furlough flowbacks? More importantly, what do I (as a Compass pilot) have to gain by having the constant threat of Delta flowbacks, even after all the Compass flowups are already gone? It is interesting that the flowback ended for those after Summer 2010, but the flowback provisions will continue indefinitely. Hence, the gift that keeps on giving.


And don't worry. If I got hired at Emirates, I'd far out-earn what I'd make at Delta. And a better pension, too. How's that 32.5% paycut working out? See, I can be a do**he too.

Hate to burst your bubble bro, but I've been in the sandpit 20 years, while I'm quite happy, never compare a JOB here with a CAREER at Delta...too many reasons to list...

 

[General Lee]

Hate to burst your bubble bro, but I've been in the sandpit 20 years, while I'm quite happy, never compare a JOB here with a CAREER at Delta...too many reasons to list...

DOH! I still think Flyer1015 would be happier out there.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flyer1015]

Hate to burst your bubble bro, but I've been in the sandpit 20 years, while I'm quite happy, never compare a JOB here with a CAREER at Delta...too many reasons to list...

If you've been there 20 years, you missed the 9/11 after-effects here in the States. No pensions. 32.5% paycut. Regional out-sourcing.

 

[Twisted Mind]

Flyer1015 will never be happy.

 

[On Your Six]

If you've been there 20 years, you missed the 9/11 after-effects here in the States. No pensions. 32.5% paycut. Regional out-sourcing.

The pension was replaced with a separate 14% DC fund. That is in addition to your own 401k contributions, and both are in your own name, so you can take it with you. The paycut was bad I guess,(wasn't here at the time) but the joint contract added 17% of that back, and more to return in upcoming contract. RJ outsourcing is right, but many 50 seaters are going away, and caps on larger planes are being hit and not growing. But, I honestly think 1015 should go to Qatar and try it out for a decade or two. See ya!


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[Flyer1015]

Flyer1015 will never be happy.

I'm happy. Simply calling out Delta's BS flowdown to Compass when they ended the flowup. After the last Compass pilot flows up, there should be no more flow up or down.

 

[Jar Jar]

After the last Compass pilot flows up, there should be no more flow up or down.

For about the 10th time, that would end their flying as well. Really gets on my nerves that you post on and on about something and fail to actually read what people are telling you..

The way the language reads today is that the flow-down must remain in place in order for DAL to retain the current number of 76 seat outsourced airframes. No flow-down, no compass. To give up the flow-down once the flow-up has finished would have been giving a scope concession with nothing in return.

Seriously the last time that I will explain it to you.

 

[Flyer1015]

For about the 10th time, that would end their flying as well. Really gets on my nerves that you post on and on about something and fail to actually read what people are telling you..

The way the language reads today is that the flow-down must remain in place in order for DAL to retain the current number of 76 seat outsourced airframes. No flow-down, no compass. To give up the flow-down once the flow-up has finished would have been giving a scope concession with nothing in return.

Seriously the last time that I will explain it to you.

Good. Take the flying in-house. You have Embraer 170 series payrates, don't you?

 

[Flyer1015]

The flow down was left in place because when all of the great thinkers of the 4 party talks got together they figured out that a flow-down was seperate from a flow-up, and that even when a flow-up is ended a flow-down being in place does not eliminate a flow-through. Seriously.

This is a switch-aroo! Seriously, who in their right mind would think that ending a flowup, but keeping a flowdown, still qualifies as a "flowthrough in place"? Of those 4 parties, which party really came forward with this? I probably don't have to ask, I think I can guess.

 

[Jar Jar]

Only took you 6 hours to go back and read the first page eh?

 

[Flyer1015]

Only took you 6 hours to go back and read the first page eh?

More like I had to do an out/back. You still didn't answer who among the 4 parties proposed that wild idea, the switch-aroo!

 

[Jar Jar]

More like I had to do an out/back. You still didn't answer who among the 4 parties proposed that wild idea, the switch-aroo!

Sorry I wasn't in the room.