Comparing hiring practices--Who is doing it right?

[densoo]

Next question--how many of these guys do you think pick up extra trips? Dip into open time and grab a trip here or there at straight pay? They may do it sometimes, but more than likely they are tackling a problem on their other job during their time off. In the case of some, they will drop trips to go do more lucrative work than fly jets (hard to imagine, isn't it?)

So...you may or may not want to FLY with these guys, but how does a company like JetBlue (where you get 1.5 rate for hours over 70 hours) or SWA (extra trips picked up pay year 2 pay) or FedEX (if we call YOU for a trip its 1.5 x pay rate) view employee productivity?

Nice one!

 

[SWAdude]

i don't think so. i believe if any 1 person during the interview "downs you" you can still get hired provided the rest think you did well and you have good LORs. after all the decision board has to come to a "decision" and that means they aren't only hiring the folks who had all 4 pilots and 1 PD person give you a thumbs up.

Thats not exactly true. It may be possible but extremely unlikely that you would get hired if one person said no. The process works in such a way that it would not be presented to the board in that way. It can happen, but again, very very unlikely.

The person representing the People Department (SWA's Human Resources) is part of an entire evaluation, but generally speaking, not and individual thumbs up or down.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

FedEx says the meet and greets are back on....but you can only get one if you have not just a sponsor but one or more well connected sponsors.

Its good for the company, for sure, but how do you young pilots feel about it? C'mon, be honest, this is an anonymous forum. Sure the cost to play is cheap, $50 plus travel and expenses to Memphis x2, but with the odds going the way of Powerball, is it better than the other carriers???

 

[SkiFishFly]

I liked the fact that Air Tran gives you a chance to present yourself and resume in person at a job fair. Many folks (including myself) have gotten interviews this way without knowing someone on the inside. I view this as giving folks a fair chance at securing an interview based on who they are, not who they happen to know.

 

[Caveman]

FedEx/UPS: Good ol' boy network in the extreme. Whether or not I know someone there has no bearing on whether I'm qualified and meet the experience requirements to get an interview. There is a huge difference between a LOR to recommend you during the interview and 3 LORs, a sponsor and a 'informal' meeting with the CP just to get an interview. The thing that kills me about the requirement to 'know' someone at these carriers is that it's a sham. The intent is probably to interview only folks that they have a pretty good idea of what they are getting. What it has turned into is my brother's girlfriend's aunt's babysitter's stepmom lives next to a woman whose father is a FedEx pilot. Good to go! What a crock.

SWA/AirTran/jetBlue: Once you meet their arbitrary minimums the interview is basically a relaxed conversation with a couple of employees. They already know you are qualified and they just want to get to know you. TMAAT is a much better way to evaluate an established professional aviator than seeing if he/ she can regurgitate some meaningless bit of FAR trivia. SWA just needs to get rid of that ridiculous type requirement. I know, I know. It's not 'required' anymore. Wink, wink.

Any of these companies can do whatever they want and use whatever criteria they want. It's a free country, but the original post asked for comments on what worked and doesn't work. All of these companies are hiring good people. I just think some of the requirements are not necessary and probably eliminate some awfully good candidates for no valid reason. Just my 2 cents.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Good point Caveman. This is a messy subject. I know those who were turned down by SWA and picked up by FedEx. I also know those who wanted to be at FedEx but couldn't get an interview and ended up at SWA or UPS.

If some of the best pilots can't even get an interview at FedEx then, by definition, they aren't screening for the best. They are screening for good enough if you know the right people. Not saying that is bad, just is. I also know some of the best only apply to UPS and/or FedEx so not all the best even consider SWA, Airtran or JetBlue. And vice versa.

It appears low cost is best for the company as long as safety is not an issue, and it looks like it isn't.

So, for saving company funds on folks leaving for greener pastures, FedEx may have the lead on hiring. But SWA has a shorter training syllabus and they don't switch airplanes like FedEx folks do. There is no need for special move packages and man hours spent figuring out if new hires can go to certain airframes.

Is it cheaper to interview all qualified candidates to get the best who apply (and lose a few to other jobs) or hire only the secret handshake, ultra loyal types? I'm betting the interview all qualified option and fewer training cycles is the cheaper option. But I have no data to support it...yet.


But I did start this thing with which one is doing it right. Perhaps a poor choice of words. There seems to be no right answer. We all like to think our pilot group is the best and that would seem to be the right answer, but I think cheap and very safe is management's right answer.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

In my opinion, I feel that the Hooters restaurant chain has the best hiring practice. Their wait staff has a very professional demeanor that is unprecedented.

 

[federico]

WWW.AVIATIONINTERVIEWS.COM LETS HOPE NOBODY
GOES TO THE CATHAY PACIFIC-NASA SYSTEM
​

,

 

[Caesar]

The best interview? I liked the one where they paid me and had a cocktail party!

No joke, some will know

 

[walden]

fuhgeddaboutit

 

[Hvy]

Albie, if they want "aviators" then they can only look at guys from the Navy.



TP

Hey....don't forget the Marines!

 

[Hvy]

I think these are direct questions from UAL, seriously. Isnt this a load of crap the more you think about it? Why are we letting that place survive?

Letting us survive? Are you kidding? We're going to do much more than survive, and you won't have a thing to say about it.

 

[Lear70]

On the other hand, say you get the type and then an interview and then no job. Now you have that 737 type and go interview with, gosh, who's hiring now anyway? Lets say Airtran. They look at your qualifications, see the 737 type and say "well, if SWA didn't want you, why should we"?

Worked for me. They brought up the type, I said "Yeah, I got it", they didn't ask another word.

I start next Monday.

I know they wouldn't say that directly, but who just goes out and gets a 737 type? They have to know that you interviewed there, or would jump ship to go there if you did get the job.

Nope. Sorry, but Southwest lost out by not hiring me. AirTran did, that's where my loyalty is gonna lie, no more Southwest updates for me.

I like them, I think they have a great future, I have lots of friends there who love it, the pay is good, benefits are decent, so why leave for an airline that didn't want me just because a prior supervisor and I had a pissing match before he was the chief pilot?

Piss on 'em.

Southwest did have an excellent interview process in terms of finding an overall fit AND flying/CRM proficiency with the LOI. (I passed all the Southwest interviews, just got hosed by the board.) That's their only real weakness as far as I can tell, is that the board doesn't get to see the person, just the "paper trail".

That and having to have a 737 type is completely bogus, but that's off the subject of "who has the best interview process". That might fall under "Who has the better selection process for interview?"

 

[Lear70]

The best interview? I liked the one where they paid me and had a cocktail party!

No joke, some will know

Cathay?

 

[CaptainMark]

FedEx/UPS: Good ol' boy network in the extreme. Whether or not I know someone there has no bearing on whether I'm qualified and meet the experience requirements to get an interview. There is a huge difference between a LOR to recommend you during the interview and 3 LORs, a sponsor and a 'informal' meeting with the CP just to get an interview. The thing that kills me about the requirement to 'know' someone at these carriers is that it's a sham. The intent is probably to interview only folks that they have a pretty good idea of what they are getting. What it has turned into is my brother's girlfriend's aunt's babysitter's stepmom lives next to a woman whose father is a FedEx pilot. Good to go! What a crock.

aren't we all qualified...if you were going to hire someone for a job and both had the same qualifications wouldn't you hire the one that came with a recommendation over the one that did not?...i would...i like the FDX policy..all newer guys i have flown with are great pilots and fun to be around...seems to be working...

 

[Diesel]

Didn't realize caesar went to cathay.

Fedex should only hire if you can decipher the logo.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Doesn't airtrash make you sign a 2 year employment contract?

 

[puddlejumper101]

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, know this; AirTran didn't just pull this requirement out of their ass. Years of training experience has shown that they get better results upgrading new hires in 2-3 years if the pilot has prior 121 PIC time.

I'm not defending this requirement, nor do I agree with it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's Stoooooopid!!

You know what though? Airtran I am sure has a great pilot group...but lately they have hired some shady characters. Reason I say that is some of the most notorious "captains", guys who had aweful reputations here at ASA are now at Airtran...guys that flying with would drive you insane. I don't know how they got through...but they are there now...so beware Airtran guys...there are a few interesting newbies walking in your campus.

 

[IronCityBlue]

interviewing methods

JetBlue uses the computer and "Blue Dart" lotteries to help pin point who to hire.

Not to split hairs here, but JetBlue doesn't use the mysterious big blue particle accelerator computer or the infamous blue dart to pin point who to hire.

The computer is there to sort through the thousands of apps, but there is a significant ammount of human input for min quals and many facets of diversity (like certain percentage 5000 hour pilots, X percentage 10,000 hour pilots, etc. within each broad based category (mil fighter, mil heavy, furloughed major, regional, (commuter?), corporate, etc.)

The blue dart is a guaranteed interview given by an employee who wins one in a lottery like system. Most pilots do not have one, and if you get one that's all you get. plenty of pilots who get the interview via a dart don't get the job, and many pilots who get picked by the computer don't either.

The lack of a sim assumes many things. First, a sim ride is extremely arbitrary. Does anyone really think someone smoking a Frasca 6 pack scan sim ride is a reasonably accurate predictor of performance in an Airbus training program? Even 727 or 747-400 sim rides don't mean much. Are you telling me if someone slops up a 747 sim ride with zero time in the plane that that's how they're going to fly on the line after months of training and IOE? Hardly. If someone aces a 727 ride with no time in the plane its 1% Chuck Yeager born to fly and 99% paid out the ying yang to buy sim specific and profile specific prep, which again prooves nothing.

JetBlue uses one's flight experience in lieu of an arbitrary sim ride. If you have 10,000 hours, 8000 in jets, 5 type ratings, thousands of hours of turbine PIC and A-320 time, the powers that be pretty much assume that is a far more accurate predictor of future performance than any sim ride they can give you short of putting you through the training program first.

I'm not saying our interview practices are perfect (heck, I slipped through the cracks!) but they do a pretty good job of hiring highly skilled, safe, friendly, positive pilots who make working here a great experience. Unfortunately I know several GREAT pilots who didn't get the call. But that happens everywhere.

 

[Lear70]

Not to split hairs here, but JetBlue doesn't use the mysterious big blue particle accelerator computer or the infamous blue dart to pin point who to hire.

The computer is there to sort through the thousands of apps, but there is a significant ammount of human input for min quals and many facets of diversity (like certain percentage 5000 hour pilots, X percentage 10,000 hour pilots, etc. within each broad based category (mil fighter, mil heavy, furloughed major, regional, (commuter?), corporate, etc.)

So explain to me how a guy can have his resume in for nearly 5 years, update monthly for years, have identical flight time as his buddy (7000 total, 4000 PIC Jet (3000 PIC 121), 4 types, college degree, no skeletons), the buddy puts his stuff in and gets called 4 months later.

WTF is THAT about??!!

Just a hint, but the selection system at jetBlue is seriously screwed up.