CommutAir Lawsuit Ruling

[socalpilot]

A copy of the ruling regarding the CommutAir ESOP lawsuit is available at:www.shaynegreenwald.com. Charges against the company have been dismissed.

 

[chperplt]

For the uninformed like me, can you give some background info on the suit?

 

[elguapo9]

Reading a little of the ruling, it looks like a split. They somehow found the 3rd party responsible (to the tune of 7.75mill), but Sullivan and the rest of the CA management is off the hook. Rumor now is that the DASH-8's will be showing up on property any day now. Matter of fact, they have already been typing some of the more senior people in the plane. Just the ones that know how to keep their mouths shut, of course.


It's all true.

 

[deskjobssuck]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! Now can we get new planes?

What a HUGE flucking waste of time that was.

 

[I.P. Freley]

What a HUGE flucking waste of time that was.

I guess you didn't have any retirement money wrapped up in that "waste of time", huh?

 

[deskjobssuck]

No, G, I just didn't properly phrase my comment. The huge waste was all of the bs flying around for no reason. If I had to listen to one more person say that we're going out of business or that js was going to be making license plates up at Dannemora, I thing I would have barfed. The money part is great. When mine comes, I'll take the penny rolls straight to the bank.

And come on, you know it isn't dash 8s anymore, it's e135s. There is even a picture up in the CLE crewroom. Seriously!

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

And come on, you know it isn't dash 8s anymore, it's e135s. There is even a picture up in the CLE crewroom. Seriously!

Are they planning on putting props on the 135's? If not, you could probably put your picture away for at least 2.5 years. It's this thing called the CPA-maybe you've heard of it....

 

[burrito]

RSRVWINDSURFR, Oh my gosh, that was soooo funny. Are you really smart?

Me thinks that your agreement is not nearly as secure as you have been lead to believe. Dig deep. Seriously.

Oh yeah, and don't be a goofy bastard. You don't have to worry about us getting jets. I mean it. I think our training department would suffer a collective stroke if they had to figure out how to train on a new a/c.

 

[MJG]

You don't have to worry about us getting jets. I mean it. I think our training department would suffer a collective stroke if they had to figure out how to train on a new a/c.

Now that's funny !

 

[I.P. Freley]

Other equipment aside, what happened with that suit? I heard it was a slam-dunk... You know, Champlain Ent. owning the fuel truck and leasing it back to CommutAir for a gazillion dollars a month, solid gold fittings in ##'s Escalade, small jets with suspicious ownership, etc.

All joking aside, I know of more than one senior CA pilot who feels they had it all wrapped up and now... And now? I don't know about now.

Someone help me out here.

 

[AftCG182]

Sounds like it's time to train some new hires!

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

The pilots won on the first of 3 counts. However, the judgement was against the trustee and not the owners. The remaining 2 counts deal with replacing the trustee and the diversion of funds (i.e. the soild gold Escalade fuel truck ). I think the third count may pose a problem for them. We'll have to wait and see what the verdicts are.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Leave it to me to not actually click the link LOL

So... The pilots involved in the case are awarded $7.5m. Is this like most lawsuits, wherein the attorneys are now going to siphon off 35-40% of that? If so, that makes it significantly less wonderful.

 

[Company Man]

From what I understand, the judge threw out the lawyer's fee of 40%. It will be interesting to see how agressive these guys are after seeing 40% of 7 million get thrown out.

 

[NEDude]

Are they planning on putting props on the 135's? If not, you could probably put your picture away for at least 2.5 years. It's this thing called the CPA-maybe you've heard of it....

Other airlines are only prohibited from flying RJs into current Continental hubs until Dec 31, 2006. However there is no prohibition on doing point to point flying, or operating a small RJ only hub. Anyone can fly RJs in Continental colors as long as they do not go into CLE, IAH or EWR. And Dec 31, 2006 is coming a lot quicker than you may think.

All of this being said, I do not think CommutAir is getting jets. And I am not holding my breath for larger turboprops either.

 

[CA1900]

From what I understand, the judge threw out the lawyer's fee of 40%. It will be interesting to see how agressive these guys are after seeing 40% of 7 million get thrown out.

You understand incorrectly. (And a judge can't "throw out" attorneys fees on a contingency case. That's a contract between the plaintiff and his lawyer, independent of the suit.)


The judge ordered that a decade of interest and the attorneys fees be paid ON TOP of the judgment. That's huge.

It also opens the door for the other two suits, which were on hold until this first count was decided.

 

[AutoBus]

Payout

Asuming United Trust does not appeal the case, will there there be a payout? if so is it going to be a fixed amount or a specified sum per share? any guesses.

Also, it seems that the ESOP is not desolved and remains as is. Is the ESOP debt paid off yet? does the 7.75 million plus interest get credited againist the ESOP debt balance (if any).

When are the 2003 statements coming out (anyone heard?) and when can we sell our vested shares?

 

[LaxPilot]

Outstanding work and much thanks to J.H. and M.M. for there hard work.

 

[routeskd]

IMHO the only thing M.M and J.H were successful in doing was drain over $2MM in cash from the company which is puzzling why any employees would view as a win. Bravo to M.M and J.H for stunting our growth.

 

[shamrock]

Yeah, if it wasn't for the lawsuit, Commutair would be flying a state of the art fleet of 737s throughout the country. The only thing that held up the order was the lawsuit. Now all they can hope for is for Beech to unveil the 1900E ESJ (Extra Small Jet, 19 seats) so they can be the only, I mean uhh..launch, customer.

And it's all because of the lawsuit.

Don't know how Joe and Mike can look at themselves in the mirror.

 

[CA1900]

IMHO the only thing M.M and J.H were successful in doing was drain over $2MM in cash from the company which is puzzling why any employees would view as a win. Bravo to M.M and J.H for stunting our growth.

Keep drinking that kool-aid. If you really think the lawsuit is what's stunting our growth, you need to open your eyes. Our own management stunted our growth, for whatever reason.

We were dropped by US Airways -- a goldmine codeshare for us -- after they told us to get bigger airplanes with better accomodations, and we bought 26 brand new Beech 1900s. We got the financing for these planes; we could have just as easily gotten it for something bigger.

U fired us when it became clear we weren't getting bigger planes. They hired Colgan and Trans States to replace us, and we were left with empty airplanes and a codeshare that wouldn't let us into the partner's hubs. THAT's what stunted our growth -- we gave our customers away. It was self-inflicted.

A year later, we furloughed half of our pilots, citing financial woes when every other regional in the country was making money hand over fist. We furloughed all those pilots a month before 9/11/01.

The owners embezzled funds from the stockholders, and they got caught. The plaintiffs didn't cause this situation -- they're the ones making it right.

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

IMHO the only thing M.M and J.H were successful in doing was drain over $2MM in cash from the company which is puzzling why any employees would view as a win. Bravo to M.M and J.H for stunting our growth.

Man, I hope this is flaimbait. To think that there are pilots who believe the owners are innocent is just plain scary. Go to shaynegreenwald.com and educate yourself. Besides, the downward trend that we're on started way before the lawsuit. The history of this company is littered with bad decisions and missed opportunities.

 

[Quillpig]

Man, I hope this is flaimbait. To think that there are pilots who believe the owners are innocent is just plain scary.

Don't kid yourself. He isn't a pilot.

I'll give you a hint. He works in Plattsburgh.

QP

 

[AutoBus]

Anyone know when United Trust will settle the ESOP lawsuit and more important, when are we going to see some money?

 

[NEDude]

Apparently US Trust has now filed their own lawsuit against the CommutAir owners. Plus there are two more lawsuits pending from the original plaintiffs. Also the first verdict is going to appeal. This thing is a long way from being done. If these lawsuits really are preventing CommutAir from any growth, and the rumors are true that we lost out on the IAH flying for Continental, we are in for some tough times ahead.

Sure am glad we turned down the IAH flying two years ago when it was offered to us in the first place.

Does anyplace run from success like CommutAir?

 

[AutoBus]

If these lawsuits really are preventing CommutAir from any growth, and the rumors are true that we lost out on the IAH flying for Continental, we are in for some tough times ahead.

Sure am glad we turned down the IAH flying two years ago when it was offered to us in the first place.

Does anyplace run from success like CommutAir?

The Saabs are in the paint shop, yeah right!!

 

[CA1900]

Naw, you guys still have it all wrong.

A little birdie told me the Embraer rumor is 100% true. Only problem is, it's going to be a fleet of E-110's.

 

[Fozzy]

Are they talking about bigger airplanes again??? Been there and heard that. Everytime they have problems they start talking about bigger airplanes. Did my turn 1998-2002 and every so often that rumor would go around. I think they want to keep pilots from jumping ship. CommutAir will NEVER get a bigger airplane than the 1900! End of story.

As for JH and MM, these guys did a great thing. The owners need to be held accountable for their actions. Stealing is stealing. And they should not get a pass. And if I have to wait a few more years for whatever money I get, so be it. I can wait.

Like I said while I was there and every time I see any CommutAir guys on the road. Get your time and get the hell out.