Commutair Flight 8820

[vtchaz]

Continental Commuter Plane Diverted After Threats
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DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
March 11, 2006 1:05 a.m.[/FONT]
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COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP)--A man made threats aboard a commuter airplane and punched an off-duty crew member Friday before other passengers subdued him, authorities said.
Joseph Pervis Hebert, 48, of Spring Creek, Nev., was arrested at Port Columbus International Airport.
Hebert was one of six passengers on Continental Commuter Flight 8820 that left Cleveland at 12:50 p.m. for Cincinnati, said special agent Michael Brooks of the FBI's Cincinnati office.
The pilot diverted the plane to Port Columbus International. Brooks said there were no weapons involved.
Hebert made threatening comments following takeoff and approached the open cockpit, authorities said. He then punched a male off-duty crew member who challenged him, the FBI said.
Brooks said the crew member was not seriously hurt. Authorities did not disclose Hebert's alleged threats or how the other passengers subdued him.
Besides the pilot and six passengers, the plane carried a first officer and two off-duty flight personnel, the FBI said.
It is likely Hebert will face a charge of interference with a flight crew, which carries a penalty of up to 20 years in prison, authorities said. He is expected to appear in court Monday.

 

[FlyingFisherman]

I didn't think that this would make news. Was in the tower at the time. An EJA hawker return to the airport right before this gal called in so I had question marks flying through my head when the guy on local started asking about code words, emergency and what I thought was the EJA hawker.

Got word at around 15miles to the airport that they were inbound diverting with disruptive pax...no code words. Bout one mile final she declares an emergency, global express right in front of them clears the runway and she is stopped QUICK! She used perhaps 1000ft of 28L and was off and shut down.

The police were parked at Lane (about a mile down the ramp) and took their sweet time getting out to the airplane. Watching through binoculars as they boarded they quickly removed the assumed to be disruptive pax and placed him in the police car.

Had no details...but was disappointed that they didn't beat the guy into a pulp on the taxiway.

Press must have picked up on it at the FBI office...they didn't hear it from anyone at the airport.

<edit>

Only time I've seen or heard of a B1900 doing 190 inside the marker and still being clear in under 1500ft.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Besides the pilot and six passengers, the plane carried a first officer and two off-duty flight personnel, the FBI said.
.

I love this......"besides the pilot......the plane carried a first officer"

Hello you dumb F***s, the first officer is required and a pilot.....dumb news media

 

[nethan]

I love this......"besides the pilot......the plane carried a first officer"

Hello you dumb F***s, the first officer is required and a pilot.....dumb news media

Well, there is always Gulfstream

 

[LDavid]

I love this......"besides the pilot......the plane carried a first officer"

Hello you dumb F***s, the first officer is required and a pilot.....dumb news media

Do you still have to be a licensed pilot to be an FO?

 

[SEVEN]

That's as bad as when I was deadheading to MSP for a flight and the moron passenger sitting next to me had to start up with meaningless chit-chat and said: "So, are you like an apprentice pilot then?"

He made me so mad that I almost felt like I was a Gulfstream FO who was paying to open and close the Beech 1900 door.

All that to say.....the media is clueless.

 

[Flying Illini]

Is there not a cockpit door on the B1900? The report said the "Open cockpit."

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Any word on what made the person so mad?

 

[CitationLover]

Is there not a cockpit door on the B1900? The report said the "Open cockpit."

no emergency egress from the cockpit, so no "lockable" cockpit door.

each company had their policy regarding it (open or closed). usually the back of the cockpit door displayed maintenance's porn collection. i personally think most passengers liked having the door open, so i left it open.

 

[CitationLover]

Any word on what made the person so mad?

i'm guessing props out of sync as phaser was MEL'd. that'd drive me mad.

 

[Mr Hat]

When I flew the Beech years ago there was just a little sliding plastic door. We left it open unless we were stuffing our faces with Burger King. I mean there's no FA, so we needed to be able to keep an eye on the Pax in case some crazy decided to try to open the door or access cargo. That was all pre9/11 but I don't think there would be enough room to reinforce the door.
Nice job to all around, The jumpseater and crew of this aircraft did an outstanding job.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Do you still have to be a licensed pilot to be an FO?

Nope, But you must stay at a Holiday Inn Express continuously.
BAAHAAA
PBR

 

[Sam Snead]

Inflight in the 1900, I once had a passenger get up and stick his head into the cockpit and bark at us. Fortunately it didn't get out of hand, because there were no deadheaders onboard to help.

This was pre 9/11; we let it go and the guy just got off mad. (Angry passengers were a dime a dozen.)

 

[mckpickle]

Inflight in the 1900, I once had a passenger get up and stick his head into the cockpit and bark at us. Fortunately it didn't get out of hand, because there were no deadheaders onboard to help.

This was pre 9/11; we let it go and the guy just got off mad. (Angry passengers were a dime a dozen.)

It was a bit more involved than that. This guy was not an "angry pax"

 

[bizicmo]

There are two plastic doors equal to about 1 pound each in weight. They slid together and can be "locked" together by a plastic clip. Its funny because on our side of the doors it says to kick to open in an emergency. I don't understand how that's going to happen. I guess you'd have to see the cockpit.

 

[nfg]

Only time I've seen or heard of a B1900 doing 190 inside the marker and still being clear in under 1500ft.

Pretty standard, actually.

 

[AutoBus]

Any word on what made the person so mad?

He got his CommutAir ESOP statement?

 

[CA1900]

He got his CommutAir ESOP statement?

Hahahaha.....

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
Not to flame here, but I agree with nfg. It isn't a problem to go 190 to the marker or even closer in on final and still meet the stabilized approach criteria... The Beech like most turboprops has an excellent capability to accelerate/decelerate. In fact, I've gone 220 to 1500' AGL and by 800' AGL had flaps 35/Gear down at Ref+5. And, I am just your average pilot...The 1900 makes you look much better than you are. Great airplane. Kuddos to the incident crew also!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[chperplt]

Hello,
Not to flame here, but I agree with nfg. It isn't a problem to go 190 to the marker or even closer in on final and still meet the stabilized approach criteria... The Beech like most turboprops has an excellent capability to accelerate/decelerate. In fact, I've gone 220 to 1500' AGL and by 800' AGL had flaps 35/Gear down at Ref+5. And, I am just your average pilot...The 1900 makes you look much better than you are. Great airplane. Kuddos to the incident crew also!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

I second what Kaman said... The beech is a great flying airplane!

 

[AutoBus]

Hello,
Not to flame here, but I agree with nfg. It isn't a problem to go 190 to the marker or even closer in on final and still meet the stabilized approach criteria... The Beech like most turboprops has an excellent capability to accelerate/decelerate. In fact, I've gone 220 to 1500' AGL and by 800' AGL had flaps 35/Gear down at Ref+5. And, I am just your average pilot...The 1900 makes you look much better than you are. Great airplane. Kuddos to the incident crew also!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

Yeah, now why would you want to do that (other than an extreme emergency)? Are you under some mistaken impression that the big boys (jets) go that fast and you want to keep up?

Do a search for Commutair 4821, see what you find. I remember CommutAir 4821. 220 to 1500' AGL sounds all too familiar.

 

[chperplt]

Yeah, now why would you want to do that (other than an extreme emergency)? Are you under some mistaken impression that the big boys (jets) go that fast and you want to keep up?

Do a search for Commutair 4821, see what you find. I remember CommutAir 4821. 220 to 1500' AGL sounds all too familiar.

Speaking from past experience, ATC often requested max forward speed until you need to slow. I've taken the Beech into BOS, LGA, and PIT to name a few of the bigger airports that have requested this.

You mention Commutair 4821... This accident has nothing to do with the practice mentioned. According to this narrative, the aircraft crashed because of many factors, to include pilot error.

"During the approach the aircraft struck trees and crashed near the top of a hill. Failure of the captain to establish a stabilized approach, his inadequate cross-check of instruments, his descent below the specified minimum altitude at the final approach fix and failure of the co-pilot to monitor the approach. The glide slope indications might have been unreliable due to precipitation and static interference"

I see no problem with flying an aircraft at a legal speed to a point which will allow an on speed configured and stabilized approach at a point specified in your CFM. In your airplane that point may be a 5 mile final... In the Beech, it might be a 1 or 2 mile final.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
I'm not sure what type of A/C or flying one of the previous posts does, but like chper was saying it's a common practice to fly the 1900 in this fashion. The airplane was designed with this capability in mind, and the recent time that I did this was going into rwy 12 at IAD. In fact, the high-speed approach is discussed in our CFM. At no time was I outside of stabilized approach criteria. Prior to this position I flew 135 cargo out of CLT and it was VERY common to haul A** to the numbers, and this experience has served me well in my current job as 1900 pilot.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[CitationLover]

i thought barber pole to RA activation (2500 agl), then "guard the horn", flight idle, flaps and gear on speed were the normal profile in the beech.

or

"guard the horn" used in conjunction with a short approach on a 10,000' downwind.

the 1900 is quite a versatile and easy airplane to fly. 9' airbrakes on each side definitely helps.

 

[Blucher]

Does it even matter? Once the emergency was declared the PIC could do whatever he/she felt was necessary. Frankly, I'm surprised that aircraft was going that slow.

-Blucher

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Not many 1900s come into CMH. None ever require a look or thought as to their GS. Just surprised about the speed...made a few comments that she was really in a hurry.

And she declared the emergency inside a mile final. Hopefully she's not going 190 there

 

[Blucher]

Don't know the ins and outs of the 1900, but I have flown a/c larger than that that would have no problem whatsoever with holding 200+ to 1 mile final and still have little if any problems getting configured and slowing for a safe landing (assuming the pilots were comfortable in and familiar with the a/c). I'm sure they were busy, but had it been me and I saw the police cars at the far end I probably would have held it off until half way down the runway, then put it down and braked accordingly to arrive right where the cops were. I can't imagine an a/c of that size and weight needs a whole lot of runway to stop when you really want it to.

-Blucher

 

[ksands18]

The more pressing issue at the time was to get the a/c on the ground and shut down/secured in the SHORTEST amount of time...as the passenger was still seriously threatening to break free and make his way to the cockpit. As long as the plane is still flying and/or engines running, the potential for further problems in this situation was huge.

 

[deskjobssuck]

Re: UCA4821

The lack of a stabilized approach was not an issue in this crash, but the huge-a$$ pile of snow in front of the ground-based ILS equipment was. Had they been flying a nice, slow stabilized approach, they would still have flown into the hill at a nice, slow stabilized speed due to erroneous glideslope indications. It's a good reminder of why to cross-check your altitude at the outermarker/faf, but speed had nothing to do with it.

Jeez, i sound like a crabby, old biznitch. I swear that I'm not, I just really think that CA is a great place. I don't, however, miss de-icing 6 times a day or going through SLK at 5am.

 

[AutoBus]

Re: UCA4821

The lack of a stabilized approach was not an issue in this crash, but the huge-a$$ pile of snow in front of the ground-based ILS equipment was. Had they been flying a nice, slow stabilized approach, they would still have flown into the hill at a nice, slow stabilized speed due to erroneous glideslope indications. It's a good reminder of why to cross-check your altitude at the outermarker/faf, but speed had nothing to do with it..

No they would not have, they would have crossed the FAF on altitude on speed and if they crossed checked the V/S in a normal 500 to 800 fpm range (on the GS) things might have worked out different. What does the NTSB report say?