Commerical complex requirement

[hindsight2020]

Alright folks, I did a search about the topic of commercial single initial vs commercial multi initial and I think for a person in my situation, going for the commercial SE as the initial is more cost-effective.

I'm private SEL, instrument, and I have like 20+ hours in complex singles (Cardinal and Arrow)....working on building time to 230TT to get ready and knock out the commercial and CFI this summer.

My question is regarding the sequence of commercial certificate. Since I plan to do my long solo x-c in single, have all the night solo hours in singles as well, and all my instrument time (including dual received) is in singles as well it makes sense to go Comm SEL first.

BUT, would it be possible to do the 10hr complex dual time on a multi-engine aircraft?? I figure I would knock out the multi-time (since Senecas are complex after all) and have everything I would need for the CommSE ride, and since I had already done the multi-stuff during the complex requirement for the CommSEL its just a matter of getting off the complex single and into the multi and knock the papers out the same day. I don't see anything on the FARs stating that a multi-engine aircraft (most of them complex) wouldn't qualify for my commercialSE complex requirement. Any insight on that would be greatly appreciated.

Oh one other thing, is that complex requirement dual time or just PIC time? I have more than plenty solo single engine complex hours but I don't think I have 10 hours dual on complexes...but that was thinking if I was going to save that block of time, I know in reality I will sit in a single complex with the instructor to get the manuevers down for the checkride.

Thanks folks

 

[midlifeflyer]

==============================
61.129(a)(3)

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
==============================

training means with a CFI


in an airplane. Notice the lack of the words "single engine" in front of the word "airplane." When the requirement must be met in an SEL or MEL, the regulation says so (look at the very next subparagraph - "One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in day VFR"

 

[hindsight2020]

Thanks midlifeflyer, my interpretation hinged about the same point you were making. That being true, I know that is probably the way I'll go about the complex training (thanks for the heads-up on that one as well). Knowing I can knock out the two dual x-countries and the solo x-c (hell and the rest of the other 10 hours of comm training too!) in a 172 makes a BIG difference in the budget. In fairness, I'll admit that already having all that solo SEcomplex time makes it comfortable for me to do away with most of the single engine complex 'transition thing' that would have otherwise be required for me to feel comfortable with the plane come commSE checkride time)

I'm looking forward to the multi-time and right seat CFI training time though, those are the little stepping stones that make this vocation so challenging and motivating at the end of the day. Can't wait. Thanks for the feedback!!

 

[minitour]

Save the two short cross countries until the end (the dual ones).

If you want to save money, the best way I've figured it out (in hopes of saving my comm students some cash) is this:

Learn the maneuvers in a simple single (that should take around 10 hours or so) including the landings. If you can get a cheap 152 or 172 you'll be in good shape.

Then transition over to the complex aircraft doing maneuvers. It may not take you 10 hours to learn the maneuvers in a complex a/c so rather than waste another 3 or 4 hours zipping around the pattern or hammering maneuvers to death, do the cross countries in the complex a/c. This way, you'll get a better "feel" for fuel consumption, you can practice a diversion and be all set for the check ride...that's what I'd do anyway.

There aren't a whole lot of things to do in the twin to get a ME add on for the CPL. I think it's just slow flight, some stalls, Vmc, landings, OEI approach (instrument), OEI landing...not a whole lot. You could probably knock that out in a short amount of time.

Of course the other way is...

Do the XCs in a simple single. Learn the maneuvers in a simple single, transition over to the Complex Single. Once you've got them nailed look at how much complex time you need. Then just go up and do the twin maneuvers and such until you're ready for both rides. Schedule them both for the same day, consecutively and bam...you're good to go.

You could even do the single checkride in a simple single except for (I believe) a touch and go to show proficiency, then just do the maneuvers in a cheap 172...go up and do the twin maneuvers and you're all set.

Lots of options. You could even start training now from both the right and left sides, build up to the 250, take the comm SE and ME, review the CFI/II stuff and knock those out a few days later..

I'd run the numbers to see what works out the best and talk to a CFI (preferably one familiar with you and your flying) to see what they think about the numbers you came up with.

Good Luck!

-mini

 

[hindsight2020]

Thanks for the feedback mini, you are correct in that there are quite a few options to complete this and from the looks of it having that instrument rating knocked out first pretty much set the ground work for a smooth comm requirements *check check*.

I'll probably try to get all 3 writtens (commercial, and the 2 CFI ones) knocked out as early as practicable, and work with the right seat flying concurrently, summer should be plenty of time to get the ratings and the numbers look good. Thanks again!