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Commercial Question

maverick_fp00

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When you get your commercial, can you get paid to take somebody somewhere if you have to rent the plane from a flight school?

Thanks
 

regionalcap

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From what i remember, you cannot provide the aircraft and your pilot services. This would be considered a charter.
 

Timebuilder

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No.

If he has a plane, he can hire you to fly it for him.

Crazy, isn't it?
 

bobbysamd

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Holding-out

I agree with the above. It doesn't matter if you rented the plane or you own the plane. If in any way you provided the aircraft and you're being paid to fly it, it is an illegal 135 operation.
 

maverick_fp00

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what do you mean, if I provide the aircraft.... if I rent an airplane, I'm providing the aircraft aren't I?

just a little confused that's all... :)
 

Timebuilder

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You are allowed to provide only yourself, unless you are a 135 operator.
 

willbav8r

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If I am a freelance CFI, and I rent the plane from xyz plane rental, and instruct students, does this constitute a 135 operation?
 

bobbysamd

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Providing aircraft

Let me clarify. It doesn't matter where you got the airplane. You could have borrowed it, stole it, purchased it, or rented it. As long as you are providing the aircraft and are charging for your services, you are committing an unlawful operation pursuant to 14 CFR 135. If someone else provided the aircraft and hired you to fly it, that is legal.

For instruction purposes, the student must rent the aircraft. The student is paying you for your services. Of course, the aircraft in question has to have an annual and 100-hour inspection (or an approved progressive maintenance program) for it to be used for flight instruction for hire.
 

bigD

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Okay, here's another situation (this is actually a real one):

I'm flying with some buddies to see my beloved Longhorns play the Huskers up in Lincoln this November. As it is, I'm renting a Duchess and my three buddies are splitting the cost evenly with me.

But lets say that they picked up the entire tab for the airplane. I didn't hold out for this gig, and I'd be going up there anyway with or without them. They just wanted to cover the whole cost since I'd be the guy flying. Is this 135?
 

Timebuilder

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If you rent the aiplane, as you just stated, you would be in violation unless all participants paid an equal share.

If one of your buddies owns the plane, he can hire you and pay you.
 

cvsfly

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You of course can rent a plane and do instruction with students if the flight school is agreeable to this. They usually will not be and any damage or accident while you are trying to do this will make you liable. Flight instruction is exempt from 119/135 as is sightseeing with in 25 miles, banner tow, etc. There are those who try to transport persons from A to B and call it instruction, but they run a serious risk here. One you should have documentation of the instruction you provide - some kind of course syllabus. IF it is obviously for the purposes for furtherence of a business (ie you are transporting a person who is conducting business) you are conducting a 135 operation. If you are holding out to provide this transportation you are a 135 operation. If in an accident the insurance company determines that this flight was conducted illegally and against the terms of the policy you and the aircraft just became uninsured and you will be sued. The only way that this scenario becomes ligit is if the party in question leases the aircraft themselves (and accepts all of the responsiblities that go along with that) and then hires you for your pilot services. This would be just like a corporate flight operation. Even if this is done properly with all of the paper work in place it is highly unlikely that all of the parties involved will accept the liability involved for a short term operation. (ie the renting party will not likely be able to get the proper insurance, the flight school will not want to release control of the aircraft, etc.) If this is done over and over to accomodate different people off the street, this will likely be viewed as holding out and you would get the attention of the local FSDO.
 
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