Commercial Helo to Private Airplane?

[weekendwarrior]

Help! I can't find it in the FAR's anywhere. Lets say you hold a commercial rotorcraft license, but you want a private airplane certificate. Do you need to meet the 40 hours of flight time that is specified in 61.109?

The catch here is the applicant holds a commercial rotorcraft that he got from military equivalency, so you can't look into a logbook and see where he has logged 40 hours of instruction in 61.107(b)(1).

We already know he doesn't have to pass a written, but how much total instruction in airplanes does he need to log? (other than the aeronautical experience specified reference to cross country, nights, instrument, etc, etc.

Hmmm...anyone?

 

[IFlyGC]

This is one of those where you'll get 50 different interpretations depending on who you ask....and there's only one who matters...that's the guy doing the checkride.

I've had a few situations where the FSDO has said one way but the DPE refuses to examine based upon his/her interpretation of the rules....it's not right but that's just sometimes how it is.

What I would do is ask the DPE what s/he would like to see and have them talk to the FSDO....that way there's no confusion later on.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Of course he has to meet the 40 hours of flight time. But he has that, doesn't he? What "40 hours of instruction" are you talking about? Why can't you look into a logbook? Doesn't he have one from his military training?

Perhaps you're confused by some basic terminology. There is no such thing as an FAA "commercial rotorcraft licence". There is a "commercial pilot certificate" with a "rotorcraft rating"? All he's looking for is an additional rating to his current pilot certificate.

Whether he goes commercial or private level, all he needs to accomplish are the requirements that are described as "in an airplane" or "in a single engine airplane" for the level of certification.

Here. You might find this helpful. Go to http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/
Under the "Training" heading, you'll find an item called "Aeronautical Experience Checklist." It's a doc file. Download it.

 

[weekendwarrior]

61.109 says, "must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight instruction from an authorized instructor.......in the areas of operation in 61.107(b)(1)."

The problem here is that it says you MUST LOG in those areas of operation. When you are in the military, you have a DD Form 759 that only shows time, but not what you did. Conditions of flight, aircraft, etc. It does NOT list the items in 61.107. That is where the problem lies.

He has a Commercial certificate, Rotorcraft Helicopter rating. He is not adding ASEL to his commercial. He wants ASEL with Private priveladges. The reason is that for commercial you have to log your complex time, 50 hours in airplanes, etc, etc.

So, the question is does his total time (300 hours or so) and the fact that he has a commercial certificate in one category, qualify him to get a private in another category without meeting the 40 hours total, 20 dual that 61.109 says. Theoretically, I should be able to solo him, and have him meet the other specifics of 61.109 (cross country, nights, solo, etc)

 

[skiddriver]

He'll be able to use some of his helicopter time for his F/W commercial and ATP ratings. All of the time for his Private ASEL will have to be done in a SE airplane. I believe he can use the 61.63b add-on provision you'll find in the checklist Midlifeflyer referenced to reduce the time required to 30 hours, 20 of flight instruction and 10 solo, which I've cut and pasted below:

XXVIII. An additional Airplane category rating for the Single Engine class rating at the Private Pilot Certification Level:

A. Dual: 20 hours of flight training with an instructor on the Private Pilot areas of operation in a single engine airplane, that includes:

1. 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a single engine airplane;

2. 3 hours of night flight training in a single engine airplane, that includes at least-

a. 1 cross-country flight of over 100 nm. total distance; and

b. 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop at an airport.

3. 3 hours of flight training by reference to instruments in a single engine airplane; and

4. 3 hours of flight training in a single engine airplane within the preceding 60 days prior to the practical test.

B. Solo: 10 hours of solo flying on the Private Pilot areas of operation in a single engine airplane, that includes:

1. 5 hours of solo cross-country flying;

2. 1 solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nm. total distance with 3 points and one segment of at least 50 nm. between takeoff and landing; and

3. 3 takeoffs and landings at a controlled airport.


Wish him luck.

 

[weekendwarrior]

Ok..thanks. I think I found other documentation to figure this out. It turns out you can have more than one category on a commercial certficate, but have different priviledges. At our school we have a guy who has a commercial with rotorcraft, but where the SEL is listed it says "private privaledges" . So, it's a category add on, with restrictions to private. When he meets the other requirements for a SEL commercial certficate, and takes a commercial SEL checkride, the existing SEL category restricted to private priviledges will be removed.

Our DPE is currently verifying this information.

 

[keith]

Check out the PTS for add-on licenses

If you look at the front of the private pilot pts (airplane) you will find a grid for add-ons. You will notice that your helicopter pilot will not have to perform/demonstrate every section for the checkride.

I had a former Army helicopter pilot doing the same thing a year ago. Great student but was inconsistent on his landings. He would do very well for a few lessons then revert back to helo landings. Be ready for this. He would try to terminate the landing into a hover! Landings were his biggest challenge.

Also, don't forget the additional endorsement he will need for the checkride. I don't remember it off the top of my head but it is in the regs. If you don't have it PM me and I will get it for you.

-Keith