Commercial ASEL Add On

[weekendwarrior]

Can anyone tell me the requirement to add ASEL onto a commercial rotorcraft certificate? The way I read it, 250TT, 50 hours in airplanes, 10 need to be complex, and a checkride.
Sound correct?

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

Fun with FARs!

A quick glance through 61.129 shows:

- 250 TT
- 50 hours in an airplane
- 100 PIC, 50 of which must be in an airplane
- 50 XC, with 10 in an airplane
- 20 hours training in categories listed in part 61.129
- 10 hours instrument training, 5 of which must be in an airplane
- 10 hours in a complex airplane
- 10 hours solo in an airplane
- 5 hours night VFR with 10 take-offs and 10 landings
- One XC of two hours or more at night with a straight line distance of more than 100 NM
- One XC of 300 NM or more distance with three landing points, and a straight line distance of 250 NM or more.


Have you satisfied the cross-country requirements in the helicopter and do you have a helicopter instrument rating?

(If I'm wrong on the FARs, feel free to correct me and slap me in the face with a dead fish.)

 

[weekendwarrior]

It's not for me. I already have my Commercial FW and will be adding my rotor. My classmates, however do not have any ratings. They will have commercial instrument helicopter but wanted to know what they would have to do to add FW onto their commercial. Just love them FAR's.

The way I read it, since the rating is already attained, it's just a matter of 50 hours fixed wing with the complex. I imagine the instrument and cross country don't apply since they already have the certificate. Or, do those cross countries and instrument time have to be in airplanes?

 

[weekendwarrior]

Nevermind. Didn't read your post clearly. It shows how many hours of each need to be in airplanes. Attention to detail, DUH!

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

Out of that stuff, here's what you have to do in an airplane:

- 50 PIC
- 10 XC
- 5 instrument training
- 10 complex
- 10 solo
- 5 hours night, 10 takeoffs, 10 landings
- And your cross-countries!

One thing that I am confused about myself is the PIC requirement. You can't log PIC until you're rated in the aircraft (solo time doesn't count). How do you get 50 hours PIC and without being rated in any FW aircraft? It almost sounds like you have to get your private FW first. After you have your private FW and get your complex & high-performance sign-offs, you are rated in any single engine recip below 12,500 lbs and can log PIC while working through the rest of the commercial requirements.

I'd love some feedback from other folks on how to get PIC time in this situation.

 

[weekendwarrior]

Here's what I predict, we'll see what the experts have to say. I say you get proficient to where you can solo. Say, 10 hours or so. (IMHO, if you are a helo guy, you can learn to land a FW in 10 hours). Then, rent off the rest of the hours solo, thus logging PIC, because you are the sole occupant (new rule). So yes, you can be PIC, as long as you are solo.

Would this work? Seems it would be a waste to go get your private FW if you are already commercial rated for helos. Another written, have to do all the things you have already learned, i.e. nav, commo, weather, FARs, patterns, etc, etc.

I'm gonna cross post this into the FARS section and see what a response we can get.

 

[great cornholio]

PIC time

Flyingtoohigh. Heres the deal with logging the PIC time in airplanes if you have comm rotor. First off that solo time would count. Before those guys solo they need to be signed off to solo the f/w a/c (just like a student pilot). This would technically give them comm privs in rotor and student privs in f/w. Then they could get the PIC required hours and be set to take the commercial f/w checkride. Since they already have comm rotor they do NOT need to take the commercail written again. Oh yeah think I almost forgot. I think they would need that solo XC sign off before every XC. Also once they do this they will be comm rotor and comm f/w with a VFR only restriction. So they would have to do some instrument approaches and stuff to get the IFR privs transfered over to the f/w. Hope this helps.

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

During the commercial FW ride for those with a commercial RW; the examiner will have the applicant demostrate instrument proficiency in the FW.

Since the first post said that the applicants in question already have an instrument helicopter, all they have to do is demostrate instrument proficiency in category/class.

 

[bobbysamd]

Student fixed-wing

I think they would need that solo XC sign off before every XC. Also once they do this they will be comm rotor and comm f/w with a VFR only restriction. So they would have to do some instrument approaches and stuff to get the IFR privs transfered over to the f/w. Hope this helps.

I agree. Although the student is a Commercial pilot, technically he/she is a student airplane pilot. Therefore, he/she must obtain a student certificate, fulfill all the 14 CFR 61.87 requirements, be soloed out, including all the student certificates and logbook endorsements, receive all the student certficate and logbook cross-country endorsements, and be signed off for each cross country. It seems stupid for a Commercial pilot to have to be signed off for cross-countries, but none of us wrote the regs.

They absolutely must demonstrate approaches in the airplane to have airplane instrument privileges. My second signoff was an ex-Army helo pilot who had a Private airplane category rating. We worked on instruments, and I signed him off and sent him to an examiner for his practical.

 

[RedOx]

This is kind of the same question. I have a PPL ASEL and Comm/Inst Helo.
I want a Comm AMEL. Do I have to get a PPL AMEL first? When I do get my Comm/Multi, does my SEL automatically upgrade to a Commercial, or do I have to do a checkride to get that rating, too?

 

[bobbysamd]

Airplane add-on ratings

This is kind of the same question. I have a PPL ASEL and Comm/Inst Helo.
I want a Comm AMEL. Do I have to get a PPL AMEL first? When I do get my Comm/Multi, does my SEL automatically upgrade to a Commercial, or do I have to do a checkride to get that rating, too?

I don't think you have to get Private MEL first. As long as you meet all the hour and experience requirements, you can go right to Commercial Airplane MEL. In effect, your Airplane MEL is an add-on to your Commercial certificate.

What I have heard of is some examiners will write a Private MEL temporary and make you turn it in to them and they will then write a Commercial MEL temporary.

You would continue to have Private privileges for airplane SEL. You would have to take the Commercial SEL practical to have those privileges.

I know it sounds odd, but it's really very common. Many flight schools train their students for initial Commercial-Instrument certification in multis. So, they have Commercial privileges in the multis but Private privileges in singles, and instrument privileges for both.