commercial 141 questions

AKMac

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Hey Guys. I need some help finding out exactly what hours I need for my commercial. Here's my situation. I did my private 141 in about 50 hours. I also did my Instrument 141 in about 50 hours. I started doing my commercial 141 as everyone at the school said it would probably be cheaper. So with that said, I'm about 30 hours into my commercial, and I have approx 130 hours total time.

Today my CFI was talking to one of the other CFI's and she said that I need 50 hours of X-country time, and that I can't use any of my previous X-country time (which has all been completed under 141 training). If this is true, then I might as well do it 61 and not have to follow the syllabus because I don't have very much X-country time. She also said that I need 5 hours of instrument training even though I have my instrument rating.

I've tried looking in the FAR's but I really can't find the answer I'm looking for. It's really starting to confuse me. So what is the break down of the 190 hours required to get my commercial under 141?
 

Kream926

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did you transfer from somewhere......

theres something in there about half the time being credited or something like that.......just getting it flowing im sure someone here knows for sure
 

viper548

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Don't they use a syllabus? That should break it down for you.
 

minitour

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141 Appendix D is Commercial (I think...been a while)

Here's the deal. The reason your previous xc time doesn't count is because the commercial syllabus probably calls for 50hours of cross country time. That was the case where I went...it sucked doing short trips out and back twice a day, but it wasn't too bad I suppose.

For doing it pt 61, you'd need 250TT plus.....

The kicker for 141 is although 141 Appendix D may say "ABCDE", if the syllabus was approved saying "FGHIJ" then that's what you have to do.

-mini
 

Almerick07

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At my flight school we did private, secondary (time building block for commercial all x-c), instrument and then finished up with about 70 more hours to finish up commercial. total was 190 hours....the syllabus was jeppesen.
 

NoPax

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Ref: Appendix d to Part 141./School's FAA approved syllabus.

Sounds like your instuctor is following the school's FAA approved syllabus and the regs closely.

If you stay 141, you can get your SE commercial, and during the 65 hours of 'training' (not 55 hours dual specified in the reg) you can train for your commercial ME. When you hit the magic 190, then take either the Multi, or Single, and do the Single or Multi add-on respectively.

Then if you want to get CFI/II/MEI after your commercial, you need 15 hours in the Multi (PIC) then either 141 training or 61 training as required.(230 hours maybe tops)

Part 61, you'll be looking at getting 250 TT before you can do anything. So you could end up with 300 hours TT, by the time you finish your last instructor rating.

The school I used to teach 141 at, would use the 65 hours of training, to prep the students for teaching (if thats what they wanted to do) and also teach CRM etc.

Just because you have your instrument rating doesn't mean you have to stop training. I bet you haven't shot an approach down to minumums, personal or otherwise. How about solo IFR/IMC? There is alot more to learn, and you'll gain alot from it.

It's your choice, about going 61/141. there is a lot to gain from both, if you have a good, motivated instructor. I knew guys that would stop 141 after instrument, and get ready for CFI/II/MEI, while doing their commercial ie they learned the maneuvers, mastered them, then taught them to another student with the instructor in the back/supervising. We churned out 250 hours ASEL, AMEL Commercial, CFI CFII MEI guys, that would ten teach at the school for 1000+ hours and move on
 

AKMac

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It's really a question of money. I work as a lineman at a FBO so I don't really want to spend more than I have to.

As far as the syllabus, the school is using Jeppesen. I'm looking in it right now, and I'm having a hard time finding where it says I can't use any of my previous X-country time.
 

AKMac

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I forgot to add I also have 22.2 hours in an approved flight training device if that can be used towards something.
 

Almerick07

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here it is broken down....

PPL: 35 hrs
stages 1-3 IA: 35 hrs
stage 4 x-c: 53 hrs
stage 5 comm: 29 hrs
stage 6 comm: 38 hrs
total: 190 hrs

I see where you are coming from, treat the jepp syllabus as if you have zero time each time you start a new phase of training. You went over by 30 hours on your PPL & IA so those 30 hours are devoted only to your PPL and IA training and cannot be used for commercial time. It all adds up to 190 which is the 141 minimum. Being 30 hours over the 141 minimums will put you at 220TT when you complete the jepp commercial syllabus.

Figure the price difference between possibly splitting time with someone for about another 100 hours (leaving 20 hours for actual commercial instruction) to finish part 61 or sticking with the syllabus for another 90 hours with 45 of that solo. Whichever comes out cheaper is the winner, your 141 training can count towards part 61 so those 30 hours youve already flown wont be lost if you decide to switch to part 61.

I hope this helps, part 141 is awesome from PPL-Comm. if you can keep to the syllabus minimums, otherwise part 61 makes more sense. Best of luck to you and keep us informed on what happens.
 

igneousy2

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Take each stage as a seperate course. It does not matter how much time you have up until the point you start that stage, you must meet the requirements of each individual stage. As long as you meet the requirements of each individual stage, you qualify for whatever rating that stage was intended for.

When working in a 141 environment it will do you little good to read the actual part 141. What you need to study carefully is the syllabus that your school uses. Part 141 merely dictates the minimum standards to get a syllabus approved...a flight school could require a private pilot to do 200 hours of flight training to graduate from their course...and you would have to do 200 hours.

I guess the short answer is...if you go lesson by lesson and meet the requirements of the syllabus, you don't need to worry about the rest of it.

Later
 

Night_Flight

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If your instructor can't help, have them contact your Part 141 Chief Flight Instructor, Director of Flight Ops or even the FSDO rep who works with your flight school directly (even though you may get three different answers).

-Night_Flight-
 

AKMac

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Thanks to those who responded. After a long discussion with my flight instructor and the chief flight instructor we all decided to do my commercial part 61.
 
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