Comm ASE wanting AME

[machaf]

Here is the scenario:

I am a commercial pilot with ASEL and instrument rating. I want to add my multiengine rating. I fly VFR only, and do not want to get my instrument in a multi engine land.

So my question is, Is it possible to get my commercial multi addon with a VFR only limitation on ONLY The Multi portion of the certificate, but still retain my comemrcial/instrument single engine?

Where does it say that if you have your comm/instrument/single engine that if you want to add on your multi rating you have to do the instrument portion of the exam?


The question below is answered.
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Also what training TIMES would I need to add my multi engine rating?

61.63 (c) (4) - Need not meet the specified training time requirments prescibred by this part that apply to the pilot certificate for the aircraft class rating.

But 61.129(b) States all the requirements for a commercial pilot airplane multiengine rating.
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ok. So i've figured out you only need to train for proficiency.

Thanks for any help

 

[propilot]

Sure you can, probably in about 5-6 hours...Question is WHY would you want to do that? I assume you have no career flying aspirations? Also, if you ever wanted to own a twin, insurance companies would probably do a double take...

 

[machaf]

Sure you can, probably in about 5-6 hours...Question is WHY would you want to do that? I assume you have no career flying aspirations? Also, if you ever wanted to own a twin, insurance companies would probably do a double take...

Its a question I was asked on my MEI ride.

 

[minitour]

Proficiency...

-mini

 

[nosehair]

The Commercial Pilot - AMEL PTS has Area of Operation X: Multi-Engine Operations, Tasks C - Engine Failure, and Task D - Instrument Approach-One Engine Inoperative, both have (By reference to instruments) as an intergral part of the Multi Engine Practical Test.
At the front, under of Area of Operation X: Multiengine Operations, there is a note that says if you don't have an instrument rating, or if you have alredy demonstrated instrument proficiency in a multiengine airplane, Tasks C & D need not be accomplished.

Bottom line is, you cannot elect to have a VFR only limitation if you are multi and instrument rated.

 

[propilot]

That's not true. I used to work for a foreign AB-initio flight school (taking FAA Checkrides) where we did just that. Our students did a Private SEL, then Instrument. Then we did a Private MEL with the VFR only restriction. This allowed them to log PIC in the twin while building their time and skills for the CMEL-I Checkride.

 

[machaf]

That's not true. I used to work for a foreign AB-initio flight school (taking FAA Checkrides) where we did just that. Our students did a Private SEL, then Instrument. Then we did a Private MEL with the VFR only restriction. This allowed them to log PIC in the twin while building their time and skills for the CMEL-I Checkride.

Correct. But they were only private pilot rated. Not commercial rated.

Anyway after some research I found both answers in the Part 61 FAQ:

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Answer to the instrument question:

QUESTION: I'm a MEI instructor and one of my students failed the instrument part of the commercial pilot certificate – airplane multiengine land practical test. After he received a commercial pilot certificate for VFR only, I trained him for the IFR portion of this certificate and I sent him back up for the re‑test. We thought that he would only have to do the two approaches. But when it came the date of the ride, the DPE and the local FSDO came back on their decision. They said that the FAA didn’t accept the certificate and he would have to take a full check ride (meaning the entire oral and practical flight test). I just read in a multiengine book that it was possible to get a Commercial Pilot Certificate - Airplane Multiengine Land (VFR ONLY). I need some clarifications about this certificate if you would.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.43(a)(1), (c), (d), and (f); § 61.133(b)(1); and FAA Order 8700.1, Volume 2, page 6-5, Section 2, paragraph 5.k.(f);

An essential element of information is not included in your question. Did the applicant already hold an Instrument-Airplane rating as a private pilot?

Reference your comment “. . . I just read in a multi engine book that it was possible to get a commercial multi engine certificate VFR ONLY . . .” it appears the reference is to the provisions of § 61.133(b)(1). These permit a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category who does not hold an instrument rating in the same category and class to be issued a commercial pilot certificate that contains the limitation, “The carriage of passengers for hire in (airplanes) (powered-lifts) on cross-country flights in the excess of 50 nautical miles or at night is prohibited.” Per this provision, if the applicant did not hold an Instrument-Airplane rating, he would not be required to be tested on Area of Operation IX - Multiengine Operations, Tasks A, B, and C of the Commercial Pilot Practical Test Standards for the Airplane Multiengine Land rating [i.e., § 61.133(b)(1) and FAA Order 8700.1, Volume 2, page 6-5, Section 2, paragraph 5.k.(f)]. If this is so, the applicant would have been eligible to be issued a Commercial Pilot Certificate with an Airplane Multiengine Land rating and with the limitation “The carriage of passengers for hire in airplanes on cross-country flights in the excess of 50 nautical miles or at night is prohibited.” [i.e., § 61.133(b)(1)]

If the applicant already holds an Instrument-Airplane rating, he would be required to be tested on Area of Operation IX - Multiengine Operations, Tasks A, B, and C of the Commercial Pilot Practical Test Standards for the Airplane Multiengine Land rating [i.e., § 61.43(d)]. When such an applicant fails the instrument performance requirements of the practical test, a Notice of Disapproval should have been issued. He should not have been issued a commercial pilot certificate with a “Multiengine Airplane VFR ONLY” limitation.

Based upon your statement I must assume your applicant did [emphasis DID] hold an Instrument Airplane rating. Then, provided the applicant received additional training and an additional endorsement from you to re‑apply for the certificate [i.e. § 61.49(a)], and the re‑test was accomplished within 60 days from the date of the initial practical test [i.e., § 61.43(f)(1)], he should have only been re‑tested on those Areas of Operation that he failed and those Areas of Operation that he was not tested on during the initial practical test. Since you said your applicant received a temporary airman certificate for a Commercial Pilot Certificate with an Airplane Multiengine Land rating with a VFR only limitation, I am assuming he passed everything except for Area of Operation IX - Multiengine Operations, Tasks A, B, and C. If that is so, and your student appeared for the re‑test within 60 days from the date of the initial practical test, then he should have only been re‑tested on Area of Operation IX - Multiengine Operations and the failed Tasks (i.e., Tasks A, B, and C, as appropriate).
{Q&A-417}

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Answer too the Multi Add on question

QUESTION: Does an applicant for an added class rating have to meet the cross-country requirements
etc., in § 61.129(b)?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.63(c)(4);

“(4) Need not meet the specified training time requirements prescribed by this part that apply to the pilot certificate for the aircraft class rating sought unless the person holds a lighter-than-air category rating with a balloon class rating and is seeking an airship class rating; and”

For example, let’s take a holder of a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane single-engine class rating and that applicant seeks to add an airplane multiengine class rating. Therefore, “simply put” the student is given training on the areas of operation of § 61.127(b)(2) and given an endorsement and then goes before an examiner. So, “simply put” and as the rule states, the applicant “Need not meet the specified training time requirements prescribed by this part that apply to the pilot certificate for the aircraft class rating sought . . .”

So, for example the applicant does not even have to look at § 61.129 nor does the examiner have to look at § 61.129 nor does the FSDO even have to look at § 61.129 nor does AFS-700 have to look at § 61.129.
{Q&A-49}

 

[propilot]

always learnin'

 

[machaf]

always learnin'

It was Dana who asked me these questions.

I saw you have "Go Sioux" so I assume you went to UND?

 

[propilot]

Class of '99. Instructed there until early '01. I was fortunate to never have had the pleasure of taking a ride with Dana...