Comair's Training Pay

[uba757]

You are correct Ward my mistake. Just got upset and did not research the word before making a big stink. Uba757

 

[chperplt]

From what I hear, we're having a real hard time filling classes right now. They are getting no shows and turndowns of thier employment offers.

Maybe if this keeps happeneing, the training pay issue will change.

I think we canceled a good number of flights yesterday because of staffing. Not good!

 

[Rook]

When I went thru training at CMR we were put up in a great hotel for both the 120 and the CRJ. When did they change the hotel policy?

Rook (no longer @ CMR)
Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[Dizel8]

You are correct Ward my mistake. Just got upset and did not research the word before making a big stink. Uba757

Well, next time, look it up before you fark it up! Now you just look silly!

 

[logjammer]

I'm with ya FurloughedAgain, I would be embarrassed to work for free, whether it's training or not. I have never accepted that in aviation, and never will.

Pathetic.

 

[chperplt]

As usual, FurloughedAgain makes some very good points. Until the majority think like this nothing will change.

Hope all is going well for you in Arkansas buddy!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Must not be going as well for me as it is for you! I sure as heck cant afford a Crossfire!

Lucky dog!

 

[chperplt]

I was able to get a VERY good deal on it.. A little more than 1/2 of what the MSRP was.

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

That's one thing that ASA does right, full guarantee pay during training (75hrs/ month), free single-occupancy hotel with high-speed internet connection right next to training and the airport, plus you would have gotten full 24 hr per diem if you got something other than ATL as a base. Too bad all the newbies are ATL based now, no chance for SLC. I was DFW and proud of it!

Too bad I lost all my money after class playing poker

 

[TIGV]

Where's my silver spoon ??? I'm gonna need it to shovel ramen in my mouth for a couple of months LOL

 

[N2264J]

I honestly can't believe that this is not troubling to some of you.

There's a lot of troubling things to deal with in the industry right now. This doesn't even make the priority list. I suspect we'll have a hard enough time holding on to what we have for the next few years let alone getting training pay up.

As Nindiri correctly points out, what would Comair pilots be willing to give up out of their contract (pay, work rules, benefits) to offset their investment in 1) new hires who haven't passed the checkride yet [sometimes they don't] and 2) they're usually not a union member when they get here anyway.

This has always been a non issue for Comair pilots and I expect it will continue to be in the future, your hand wringing notwithstanding.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I think we need to get back to the original post. The individual who started the thread indicated that he might not be able to afford to accept a job with Comair if he wasn't going to be adequately compensated during training.

A few people then proceeded to harass him for that!!!

Not EVERYONE can afford to go 2 months without a fair salary and Comair might be missing out on some good pilots -- such as the one who started this thread -- as a result.

 

[P38JLightning]

training pay

From what I hear, we're having a real hard time filling classes right now. They are getting no shows and turndowns of thier employment offers.

Maybe if this keeps happeneing, the training pay issue will change.

I think we canceled a good number of flights yesterday because of staffing. Not good!

Chopper,

I don't think this has anything whatsoever to do with how much we pay during training. If that was true, SkyWest would be having the same problem only 10 times worse. If our training pay was causing so much early attrition and no shows that it is the reason for 8 crew related cancellations Sunday, then some of our portfolio competition wouldn't be able to get off the ground most days. I just don't think that's that big of a factor.

If that is what's causing no shows, maybe we will have to *gasp* "lower our standards" a bit. Its great that most of the non academy guys lately have been the cream of the crop (fighter guys, furloughed major pilots with 10000 hours and corp pilots with 23 type ratings, etc) but if they stop showing up for class, or keep leaving for Southwest and Air Tran their first year here, we might have to ratchet down the competitive mins a tad. What good is it to hire Joe Superpilot if he leaves in 5 months? You're right, most of the attrition is junior FO's but I'd say most have already finished training by the time they bail. Some are academy guys bailing for fast upgrade regionals. Maybe they need a training contract "incentive" to stay a couple years if they really want the job.

We at least pay during training. Someone did the math and said it came out to 6 bucks an hour. Okay fair enough. But plenty companies are paying zero bucks an hour and having no problems filling classes. You want to get training pay up, or regional pay in general, then the majors/nationals need to stop hiring anyone from the bottom 4/5th of the regionals in terms of pay and QOL issues. Only then will new hire pay become a hot button front page issue. In today's pay for upgrade labor busting bloodbath we're lucky PFT isn't rampant. (Okay it still is, only instead of pay for right seat prop now its pay for left seat jet later).

Also its important to note that not only do we pay during training (plus one weeks's hotel), a new hire is also an emplyoyee from day one, building not only seniority but longevity, sick time, vacation time, time required for retirement vesting, etc. Then when they hit the line (finish sims) they get a higher starting pay than most, and move on (second year) to one of the highest hourly rates on the planet (for regional pilots of course) with some of the industry's more favorable work rules/rigs and retirement.

Do I think we should pay new hires more? Sure. But its funny we're even having this conversation and criticizing Comair while many other regionals don't pay at all during training, and don't even make you an employee until you're finished, and pay you significantly less your whole career there.

Furloughed Again: I think that's why you don't hear a lot of Comair pilots screming bloody murder over this issue. We have bigger fish to fry right now, like grieving our medical insurance company change and fending off the Lorenzo "Air Groups" that are the latest love affair of Delta and all other airline managements. I think today's new hire can agree addressing those issues first is paramount.

And hopefuly with GSO and likely JFK going junor for new guys, at least the company will have to pay 24 hour per diem (one of the highest at that) while in training, plus full time hotel. That will help a lot. And if it doesn't, we could see "training contracts" or some other way to make sure we stop being a stepping stone to Chatuatqua.

 

[chperplt]

P38,

I didn't mean to imply that we were having troubles filling classes, simply because of our training pay.

I do think that training pay is just one of many issues keeping quality applicants from accepting employment with Comair right now. With the uncertainty in DL future and all the other unknowns right now, people are staying away.

Training pay might be the one thing the company can adjust to get people in the door.

8 crew CX on Sunday... 12 next week?? 20 the week after? They have to do something now before we're in it deep.

 

[N2264J]

As long as these guys are willing to sell their souls to feed their SJS (shiny-jet syndrome) they'll never make any headway.

Well, I think you're out of line here. That LOA was about job security for every Comair pilot on the property today. If you didn't know, our union will not let Comair or ASA negotiate scope with the entity that controls the flying so this was as close as we could get to some kind of scope under the circumstanses.

I thought that was worth buying. And if we get all 35 aircraft, that's another 350 or so pilots to hire if BlackPilot628 is still interested.

Regardless of the ad hominem "consessions for growth" target on our backs, Comair pilots still don't eat their young.

 

[Bluto]

Chopper,
I don't think this has anything whatsoever to do with how much we pay during training. If that was true, SkyWest would be having the same problem only 10 times worse.

Actually, SkyWest is having similar problems. Probably not 10X worse, but fortunately for SkyWest management, our flexible work rules allow us to do more work with fewer pilots. It's amazing what you can do when you frequently work your reserves to the legal limit and require people to do recurrent training on days off. Not to mention the benefits of ignoring seniority for convenience when it comes to staffing the 70-seater.

 

[Bluto]

As long as these guys are willing to sell their souls to feed their SJS (shiny-jet syndrome) they'll never make any headway.

Ah yes, SJS. I saw an after-school special on that. They're years away from a cure.