comair update

[N813CA]

To all pissed off ASA guys. Guess what you are not owned by the same company as Comair. You are saying it is our fault. That is like US Airways saying it is Delta's fault for their pay. Go complain to your own company. You are not Delta.

 

[sweptback]

To all pissed off ASA guys. Guess what you are not owned by the same company as Comair. You are saying it is our fault. That is like US Airways saying it is Delta's fault for their pay. Go complain to your own company. You are not Delta.

You guys took your first concession before BK, and at a time when ASA was owned by the same mother ship.

How about those Dash-8s in JFK? I thought you guys were supposed to get Q400s for your givebacks, huh? Maybe another concession is in order.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Concessions don't buy airplanes. The only award is the bonus the managers get.

We at ASA have to remember that....

 

[D'Angelo]

Concessions don't buy airplanes. The only award is the bonus the managers get.

We at ASA have to remember that....

Huge outlandish contracts are the best way to end growth as well. Sure its ok for captains but for F/Os no growth = no movement = paycut anyway. One way or another someones takin a pay cut. Sure you can get a couple grand raise as an FO but once the growth stops its like taking a 20-30,000 paycut

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Huge outlandish contracts are the best way to end growth as well. Sure its ok for captains but for F/Os no growth = no movement = paycut anyway. One way or another someones takin a pay cut. Sure you can get a couple grand raise as an FO but once the growth stops its like taking a 20-30,000 paycut

Show me one "huge, outlandish regional contract"...

management puke flame baiter

 

[D'Angelo]

Well the comair was one compared to everyone elses unfortunately. Do I agree no but as TuPac says thats just the way it is. Flame bait? I don't think so im just a realist my friend. As always the truth lies in the middle and im a person in the middle. Hey diddle diddle to the people in the middle! To add insult to injury the flying tube known as the RJ is a money loser to begin with. Maybe if all future contracts were forced to be at the comair level we would be in a different situation. Alpa allowed concessionary contracts so the floodgates are open. They reap what they sew. Sorry im not "holding the line" to let some piece of crap like Mesa take the flying and then try to get a better contract. I actually hope they only get 7 days off/month in their next deal. They cant allow concessionary deals then not expect the house of cards to crumble. Sorry ASA this is the wrong place and the wrong time to try and get a new deal.

 

[Holy Shiite]

As I said before.. go crawl back under your rock management puke....
You are fooling nobody. The RJ is a proven moneymaker. Is skywest making money dipsh1t????? Comair was making 100Million a year before Delta decided to abuse the BK laws and drag us into their BK nightmare.

When did mr. D'angelo decide to sign on to this message board and start trashing the comair and asa pilots??? Just a few months ago???

How coincidental. Take a hike moron. Your filth is not worthy of our time.

HS

 

[D'Angelo]

As I said before.. go crawl back under your rock management puke....
You are fooling nobody. The RJ is a proven moneymaker. Is skywest making money dipsh1t????? Comair was making 100Million a year before Delta decided to abuse the BK laws and drag us into their BK nightmare.

When did mr. D'angelo decide to sign on to this message board and start trashing the comair and asa pilots??? Just a few months ago???

How coincidental. Take a hike moron. Your filth is not worthy of our time.

HS

First of all im not trashing any of the employees I work with. Sometimes though they need to wake up back to reality. As for ASA they can go whine to someone else because we look out for ourselves first, ASA second. Im not hiding at all here. Fact of the matter is the RJ isnt nearly as efficent as we'd all like to think. It makes money because we all get a profit no matter what. We all saw how much money they made by themselves with indy air, yea a real money maker! Its hard not to make money when we all have guaranteed profits no matter what. Unfortunately like it or not the beatings will continue til morale improves. Whoever is left standing at the end of this war just may be able to make a career out of it. I for one want to finish here and not start over at some other airline like a retard just because everyone else says "hold the line" Yea hold the line all right as everyone else salivates at getting the flying left behind while we try to hold the line. To whoever actually trys to "hold the line" I say have fun. Good luck and good night.

 

[inthewind]

The ONLY reason that the RJ ever makes money is 'fee-for-departure'. The RJ is a fuel sucking pig and will never make money for the mothership!!!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yea hold the line all right as everyone else salivates at getting the flying left behind while we try to hold the line. To whoever actually trys to "hold the line" I say have fun. Good luck and good night.

I guess I am surprised because Comair used to be the group to emulate. Obviously you fooled us all.

Certainly not all of you. Unfortunately however, a very slight majority are scared little pu$$ies like you.

I guess Fred knew once he got you cowered in the corner he could pick your pocket to his hearts content. Guys like you bought it hook line and sinker.

I hope you don't have the audacity to wear that battle star.

Sad.

 

[cmrflyer]

Ask and you shall receive! How many years have we listend to Comair pilots talk of how important it was to hold the bar, but as soon as faced with a little adversity you guys fold like a wet noodle. Now us ASA pilots have to deal with managements constant line of "look at the comair payrates". That line used to be reserved for Mesa, guess that makes you no better.

That is the same crap we heard for years "if asa/mesa/chq can do it for that, then so can you". The difference is we are in BK, you have no excuse for dicking around for the last FOUR years. I voted no and always have voted no in my 6 years here.
Grow up kids, your all just regional pilots.

 

[737 Pylt]

The RJ is a proven moneymaker. Is skywest making money dipsh1t????? Comair was making 100Million a year before Delta decided to abuse the BK laws and drag us into their BK nightmare.

Holy:
I somewhat disagree....The rj si a proven money loser IN CERTAIN MARKETS. If you're not sure, just ask any FLY I pilot about that. The average casm for an rj is anywhere from .18-.23 per sm. While your average MD-88/B737 is around .10-.13 per sm. And using the 777 (ex ATL-MCO) it can be as low as .09 per sm. You cannot compete with JB and Air Tran on routes using the rj, its simple math. I do agree the rj has its place, in smaller markets like TOL, and ERI, but using it between JFK and ATL, is just plain stupid marketing. They are using the rj as a tool to break labor.
And if you think CMR was profitable, I give you the following quote:

An overnight court filing by Delta Air Lines' subsidiary Comair heightened an already tense situation with its flight attendants, and cast the regional airline in a fresh financial light by reporting Comair lost $120 million in 2005.

Comair is as profitable/unprofitable as management wants it to be. How else can you explain that DL lost $300 million in January alone but finished the month with $2.1 billion in unrestricted cash up from $2 billion in Dec.
737

 

[SkyWench]

the only union group at comair with any balls are the flight attendants...GO TEAMSTERS.

 

[goodpilotithink]

I guess I am surprised because Comair used to be the group to emulate. Obviously you fooled us all.

Certainly not all of you. Unfortunately however, a very slight majority are scared little pu$$ies like you.

I guess Fred knew once he got you cowered in the corner he could pick your pocket to his hearts content. Guys like you bought it hook line and sinker.

I hope you don't have the audacity to wear that battle star.

Sad.

WHAT AN IDIOTIC STATEMENT.

WE DID WHAT WE HAD TO DO. WE RAISED THE BAR AND LOOKED BEHIND US AND ALL THE SKYWEST, CHAWAWA, AND MESA PUKES WERE CRAWLING UNDER IT.
ASA WILL SOON SEE THE LIGHT TOO. YOU HAVE THOSE PUKES TO THANK FOR THE MESS WE ARE IN. YOU WILL HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN UNEMPLOYMENT OR WAGES IN LINE WITH THOSE BASTERDS.

 

[D'Angelo]

WHAT AN IDIOTIC STATEMENT.

WE DID WHAT WE HAD TO DO. WE RAISED THE BAR AND LOOKED BEHIND US AND ALL THE SKYWEST, CHAWAWA, AND MESA PUKES WERE CRAWLING UNDER IT.
ASA WILL SOON SEE THE LIGHT TOO. YOU HAVE THOSE PUKES TO THANK FOR THE MESS WE ARE IN. YOU WILL HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN UNEMPLOYMENT OR WAGES IN LINE WITH THOSE BASTERDS.

Now theres someone who knows whats goin on. Its about time someone around here thinks with logic.

 

[RJ Bum]

goodpilotithink and D'Angelo,

If you guys truly feel that way, tell me this. If all ASA,SKW,CHQ,Mesa and CMR pilots shared your "logic" when does it end?

 

[goodto50meters]

WHAT AN IDIOTIC STATEMENT.

WE DID WHAT WE HAD TO DO. WE RAISED THE BAR AND LOOKED BEHIND US AND ALL THE SKYWEST, CHAWAWA, AND MESA PUKES WERE CRAWLING UNDER IT.
ASA WILL SOON SEE THE LIGHT TOO. YOU HAVE THOSE PUKES TO THANK FOR THE MESS WE ARE IN. YOU WILL HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN UNEMPLOYMENT OR WAGES IN LINE WITH THOSE BASTERDS.

You & D'Angelhoe,

So, let me get this 'logic' of yours straight. The 'pukes' did it to you, so you have no choice but to 'puke' them back right? That will show them!

So what are you going to do when Phab-Phive-Phreddie comes back for more?

Who do we have to thank for the further sinking of this profession? Guess what Scherlock? We have fuc&sticks like you two to thank for this. You are no better, worse actually.

If unemployment happens versus slave labor, fine, I'll take unemployment for 200 jack0ff. At least i will sleep well at night knowing that the management at my airline that pushed this over the line will also be unemployed.

Yours is still counting his bonus.

Congratulations in your conquest of the race to the bottom. You win!

 

[wmuflyguy]

goodpilotithink and D'Angelo,

If you guys truly feel that way, tell me this. If all ASA,SKW,CHQ,Mesa and CMR pilots shared your "logic" when does it end?

The 4 groups you are talking about are not in bankruptcy and are turning profits. Also a few of them have already helped this mess.

 

[labbats]

D'angelo is just another reason to read the ALPA boards once you're off probation and into the union. I have yet to see someone post the same blather as him when it's attached to a seniority number and a name.

 

[wmuflyguy]

You can read the alpa boards when your on probation.

 

[RJ Bum]

The 4 groups you are talking about are not in bankruptcy and are turning profits. Also a few of them have already helped this mess.

You misunderstood my point. I'm full aware of who's in bankruptcy and who helped create this "mess." My question to those two and those like them was, if every pilot regardless of airline shared there views, how would the race to the bottom ever stop? I'm very disappointed in my pilot group (CMR) with the last two votes. I was hoping that we could set an example and take a stand and hopefully others would follow.

BTW-D'Angelo, that comment about thank you letters from the furloughs getting there jobs back. Am I missing something? I have yet to see our fleet returned or our block hours back up to pre Dec. The call backs have NOTHING to do with the latest vote. Just replacements for the average of 5 pilots we are losing a week. Have you looked at the senority list lately?

 

[D'Angelo]

You misunderstood my point. I'm full aware of who's in bankruptcy and who helped create this "mess." My question to those two and those like them was, if every pilot regardless of airline shared there views, how would the race to the bottom ever stop? I'm very disappointed in my pilot group (CMR) with the last two votes. I was hoping that we could set an example and take a stand and hopefully others would follow.

BTW-D'Angelo, that comment about thank you letters from the furloughs getting there jobs back. Am I missing something? I have yet to see our fleet returned or our block hours back up to pre Dec. The call backs have NOTHING to do with the latest vote. Just replacements for the average of 5 pilots we are losing a week. Have you looked at the senority list lately?

Yes attrition is high and flying is still a lot lower than it was. However if you think they wouldnt have taken more flying away had the vote gone the other way your dreaming. There would be a lot more furloughs and certainly no recalls. You can guarantee they would have had another round of furloughs and the flying would start to be siphoned off to mesa

 

[bvt1151]

D'angelo is just another reason to read the ALPA boards once you're off probation and into the union. I have yet to see someone post the same blather as him when it's attached to a seniority number and a name.

There is no reason to believe this guy even works for Comair. All he does is flame by saying the exact things that will get a rise out of people.

 

[labbats]

There is no reason to believe this guy even works for Comair. All he does is flame by saying the exact things that will get a rise out of people.

That's exactly my point.

 

[D'Angelo]

There is no reason to believe this guy even works for Comair. All he does is flame by saying the exact things that will get a rise out of people.

No flame wars here brother just saying the truth. People need to wake up and stop living in a dream world. Im just helping people see the light. Obviously just over half the pilot group sees things my way. You cant argue with the majority my brotha. HOLLA

 

[bvt1151]

No flame wars here brother just saying the truth. People need to wake up and stop living in a dream world. Im just helping people see the light. Obviously just over half the pilot group sees things my way. You cant argue with the majority my brotha. HOLLA

...aaaaaaaand end scene.

 

[Holy Shiite]

Yeah.... Mr. angelhoe has 115 posts since joining this board in january. All posts involve bashing Comair/ASA and supporting the putrid concessionary agenda. Nothing but a management PUKE here folks. I think its time to start a new screen name pal. Go crawl back under your rock. You fool nobody. HS

 

[Holy Shiite]

Holy:
I somewhat disagree....The rj si a proven money loser IN CERTAIN MARKETS. If you're not sure, just ask any FLY I pilot about that. The average casm for an rj is anywhere from .18-.23 per sm. While your average MD-88/B737 is around .10-.13 per sm. And using the 777 (ex ATL-MCO) it can be as low as .09 per sm. You cannot compete with JB and Air Tran on routes using the rj, its simple math. I do agree the rj has its place, in smaller markets like TOL, and ERI, but using it between JFK and ATL, is just plain stupid marketing. They are using the rj as a tool to break labor.
And if you think CMR was profitable, I give you the following quote:

An overnight court filing by Delta Air Lines' subsidiary Comair heightened an already tense situation with its flight attendants, and cast the regional airline in a fresh financial light by reporting Comair lost $120 million in 2005.

Comair is as profitable/unprofitable as management wants it to be. How else can you explain that DL lost $300 million in January alone but finished the month with $2.1 billion in unrestricted cash up from $2 billion in Dec.
737

Absolutely correct 737. To prove my point, simply look at the financials of Comair from 1995- 2001. During that time, I don't think Comair competed against any LCC's on any route. I distinctly remember flying 6-7 flights a day from mco-fll that were always full. Southwest came to town and Comair pulled out asap. Same with the MSY flights. The RJ can't compete with larger aircraft in a low fare environment. I don't think that fact was lost on the pre-Delta Comair marketing folks. They knew how to make money and knew when to cut and run. They would pick and choose their markets very carefully to avoid competion and rake in the cash. I can't say the same for Delta marketing as they obviously have no idea what they are doing.

FlyI was doomed from the get-go. Competeing with LCC's using RJ's was a no brainer suicide mission. The RJ has its place in the market. When used properly, it is a money making machine. The real Comair Airlines knew this well and their financials certainly bore this out. If I remember right, I think Comair Stock split 5 times in seven years when I was a newby. Thanks to Delta for destroying the most profitable airline in the history of aviation. HS

 

[D'Angelo]

Yeah.... Mr. angelhoe has 115 posts since joining this board in january. All posts involve bashing Comair/ASA and supporting the putrid concessionary agenda. Nothing but a management PUKE here folks. I think its time to start a new screen name pal. Go crawl back under your rock. You fool nobody. HS

How can I be a comair basher when me and just over 50% of your fellow co-workers just saved lots of jobs? Oh BTW if you don't like the paycuts your more than welcome to get a new job. BTW thats how things work best. The guys who want to stay can stay. Those that don't can leave.

 

[Plug]

Hows that contract coming?

I did not vote for a paycut, but i see a number of your posts pissing on the comair pilots. worry about yourself.

Contract is coming at a snails pace because we have the balls to stand our ground and not fall prey to the company. Most of us just assume walk away if the company won't play ball. Good things come to those who are patient.

I piss on the CMR pilots because all they ever did on forums like this is thump their chests and wave their battle stars at others. Then Fred comes in, flashes an E170 and you guys blow your wad. After that, you guys have the gall to come on here and blame others because you held the bar. Acknowledge the fact that you union leadership is weak and you have a bunch of radicals that salivate at the possibility of flying a larger airplane.

I am worried about myself and the rest of the ASA pilots and I don't appreciate when CMR pilots pledge their support to us during negotiation and then vote in paycuts, not once but twice, in one year.