Comair Pilots At Fault In Crash

[acarpe3448]

The Atlanta paper reported today that Comair is accepting that it's pilots were to blame in the accident. Comair also points out that there were other contributing factors. Well no surprises here! Sad event!

 

[acarpe3448]

How is the F/O by the way? I hope he is doing better!

 

[Tomct]

Yeah, like that was a surprise!

 

[Papps]

yeah fatigue played no part, just blaim the dead and injured

 

[doh]

yeah fatigue played no part, just blaim the dead and injured

Fatigue did not play a part! Both pilots had more than min rest. Having said that, I have been in LEX early morning, short taxi, F/O heads down the whole way. And me thinking, don't get on the wrong runway, don't get on the wrong runway! A little ground fog thrown in just for fun. I hope the F/O is recupperating well.

 

[Avi8tor2000]

Fatigue did not play a part! Both pilots had more than min rest. Having said that, I have been in LEX early morning, short taxi, F/O heads down the whole way. And me thinking, don't get on the wrong runway, don't get on the wrong runway! A little ground fog thrown in just for fun. I hope the F/O is recupperating well.

Well, gee. Maybe "min rest" isn't sufficient. 8 or 9 hours from brake set to boarding the next morning in between 16 hour duty days? Way to think like the feds., or the general public. I haven't decided which one is more dangerous yet...

 

[doh]

Well, gee. Maybe "min rest" isn't sufficient. 8 or 9 hours from brake set to boarding the next morning in between 16 hour duty days? Way to think like the feds., or the general public. I haven't decided which one is more dangerous yet...

Actually, I believe one had 17 hours rest and the other 13. You'll have to look it up on the earlier threads, but it was well above the minimum. I am the last one to knock those guys! I just don't see rest as the driver of this. Mental fatigue from the CMR beat down maybe, but not lack of sleep on this one. Fatigue is a major issue in other accidents, and still needs to be addressed.

 

[imacdog]

Saying lack of sleep not being the problem might be inaccurate - it sounds like both pilots had plenty of off-duty "rest" but how much of it was actual sleep? The only way I'm not tired at an 0-dark thirty report is if I've been on an early schedule of waking up and going to bed for at least several days. I also 100% believe that company-induced stress helped reduce the crew's ability to get proper sleep. I know I certainly had a lot on my mind regarding my career during those days (didn't the accident happen like a week after Delta announced possibly reducing Comair's fleet by the equivalent of 700 pilot jobs?)

 

[lowery21]

Dear God, the whole thing is just so terrible.

 

[RCA]

Im sure that 3 yrs of constantly having your job and your familys main source of income constantly threatened did not add any stress. All in attempt to help a PROFITABLE company save 17.3 measly million.
I for one will never forgive CMR for they way they handled the CH 13.

Things like spewing propaganda via the CP office did nothing but contribute to to sensless accident.

 

[acaTerry]

The min rest does no good if you had to commute from another time zone. Sometimes even 12-13 hrs isn't enough, especially if you were just working the other side of the clock before.

 

[capt. megadeth]

If I had to wake up before 9am I am fatigued.

I hope the FO is doing well. Anyone have any info?

 

[acarpe3448]

Saying lack of sleep not being the problem might be inaccurate - it sounds like both pilots had plenty of off-duty "rest" but how much of it was actual sleep? The only way I'm not tired at an 0-dark thirty report is if I've been on an early schedule of waking up and going to bed for at least several days. I also 100% believe that company-induced stress helped reduce the crew's ability to get proper sleep. I know I certainly had a lot on my mind regarding my career during those days (didn't the accident happen like a week after Delta announced possibly reducing Comair's fleet by the equivalent of 700 pilot jobs?)

We have dealt with this every day at Delta since 911! How many planes did we park? How many of our pilots (myself included) lost our jobs? Downturns suck! This was poor procedures I think! Don't most crews confirm their headings with runway headings prior to departure?

 

[acarpe3448]

The min rest does no good if you had to commute from another time zone. Sometimes even 12-13 hrs isn't enough, especially if you were just working the other side of the clock before.

This was not a timezone or sleepissue! This was a using the wrong runway for takeoff issue!

 

[acaTerry]

This was not a timezone or sleepissue! This was a using the wrong runway for takeoff issue!

In 8000 hrs you still haven't learned that accidents are not the result of a single event, but rather a chain. Oh, I suppose you have an argument to negate all the NTSB and FAA research. Must be nice to be so perfect. Pray that no one pi$$es on your grave if you ball one.

 

[regionalcap]

Hasn't this already been discussed enough? Let them rest in peace.

 

[KingNothing]

How cry some more. Everybody is tired in this industry/profession

They were into LEX 1,000 times before. Like they didnt know the runway layout there. Pay more attention and quit talking about your pets in your crew brief. Look up the CVR tapes.

 

[DrewBlows]

How cry some more. Everybody is tired in this industry/profession

They were into LEX 1,000 times before. Like they didnt know the runway layout there. Pay more attention and quit talking about your pets in your crew brief. Look up the CVR tapes.

You are an idiot. They were talking about non-flight related topics at the gate with the door open, the chocks in, and the parking brake set. I don't think they were in any danger of steering off course at that point. Let me reiterate, you're an idiot.

 

[DrewBlows]

I really can't stress this enough. You're an idiot.

 

[Crossky]

We have dealt with this every day at Delta since 911! How many planes did we park? How many of our pilots (myself included) lost our jobs? Downturns suck! This was poor procedures I think! Don't most crews confirm their headings with runway headings prior to departure?

I like jumpseating on ComAir, they help me out a lot, and the crews are very professional. But I was in the actual a couple weeks ago and noticed that they still made no runway callout or confirmation and had no checklist item regarding verifying the correct runway or heading either. My guess is their legal counsel is preventing them from changing their checklist and/or callouts for fear of that change being used as implicit evidence in favor of victims being rewarded damages in a lawsuit.

My company already (fortunately, due to iron and fuel farms in the ground in ORD) had a heading callout/checklist item and they changed it after the accident.