Comair Pilots Approve The Loa

[bigshooter]

By golly hovernut your right, is that an ATP seminole?


Yes Ted is correct, 60% just gave everyone the old cornholing.

 

[standaman]

By golly hovernut your right, is that an ATP seminole?


Yes Ted is correct, 60% just gave everyone the old cornholing.

And about 90% of all the regionals out there would still get a significant raise if they got anywhere close to our contract with the concessions. It's just a fact.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

The justifications I continue to hear from CMR guys go from humorous to absurd. However, none of your backpedaling changes the fact that you caved... pure and simple.

You ought to throw away your battle stars. Your 89 day walk was for nothing. Congratulations.

 

[jarhead]

The justifications I continue to hear from CMR guys go from humorous to absurd. However, none of your backpedaling changes the fact that you caved... pure and simple.

You ought to throw away your battle stars. Your 89 day walk was for nothing. Congratulations.

And another ignorant fool checks in...........

 

[Art Vandalay]

Anyone find it interesting that the skyjobs.net Comair F/O advertisement was posted today?

 

[chperplt]

Should we take you more seriously chperplt because you have run you mouth for 2,600 posts?

At least I can say what I have to say and not hide behind a new login name buddy.. If you can't take the heat, shut your mouth.

 

[D+$]

i agree with standdaman. Stan you are my hero! You are going to make some girl so happy some day.

 

[FDJ2]

The justifications I continue to hear from CMR guys go from humorous to absurd. However, none of your backpedaling changes the fact that you caved... pure and simple.

Caved? I don't think so. There was no pressure applied. CMR wasn't about to go to BK. CMR was wildly profitable. The lowest cost DCI carrier according to many CMR pilots. All Fred had to do was roll out a brand new E-170 on the ramp and it was a done deal after that. The only debate amongst the CMR pilots was how many new RJs can we get and can we get that in writing.

No, The CMR pilots sold out for growth. They could care less about their ASA friends, or the precedent of selling out contractual gains for growth. Didn't the ASA pilots refuse to sell out for growth not too long ago?

 

[av8tor4239]

Just disgusting...you yes voters just disgust me.

 

[Hovernut]

Anyone find it interesting that the skyjobs.net Comair F/O advertisement was posted today?

Wow, a glimmer of positive vibes in this thread surfaces after all. You're right. We should be hiring about 400 or so over the next few years, providing all the LOA deliveries show up! Heck, I even had a furloughed ATA 757 guy show some interest in that prospect today. I'd take the SWA preferrential interview (or is it hiring) instead!!

Bigshooter, that's a Comair Academy (now DCA) Seminole feathered over SFB.

 

[Nindiri]

Those **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** Comair guys! How dare they not fall on their sword so everyone else could get their airplanes.

 

[General Lee]

Caved? I don't think so. There was no pressure applied. CMR wasn't about to go to BK. CMR was wildly profitable. The lowest cost DCI carrier according to many CMR pilots. All Fred had to do was roll out a brand new E-170 on the ramp and it was a done deal after that. The only debate amongst the CMR pilots was how many new RJs can we get and can we get that in writing.

No, The CMR pilots sold out for growth. They could care less about their ASA friends, or the precedent of selling out contractual gains for growth. Didn't the ASA pilots refuse to sell out for growth not too long ago?

Sad but true. And, the ASA guys initially refused to believe us when we wondered why the Comair guys wouldn't help our furloughs or at least say something in public supporting them. Most just agreed that the "10 Commandments" of Comair could never be broken. But, the ASA pilots helped out our furloughs and offered them a job without seniority resignation. Just that gesture helped. Comair said NO. (until later when they wanted new 70 seaters and were forced to offer help) I can't wait for the day when our furloughs are all back and we hire the first of many ASA pilots........ (then CHQ guys....)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

I can't wait for the day when our furloughs are all back and we hire the first of many ASA pilots........ (then CHQ guys....)


Bye Bye--General Lee

Zing! Looks like it's time for ASA to step up. Expressjet got a good contract, so there is hope for us.

 

[KingAirer]

What a joke. Maybe Comair will lose their holier than thou attitude now. Why anyone would give up wages when your company is making plenty of money is beyond me. You guys dont have to be the cheapest out there to get DL flying, you're owned by them. Oh well.

 

[P38JLightning]

state of the "industry"

>>>>Why anyone would give up wages when your company is making plenty of money is beyond me.
Kingairer,

SkyWest, Mesa, Chautauqua and Mesaba all signed contracts significantly below Comair's to get growth, especialy in 70 and 90 seat AC. Recently Air Whisky and ACA (back when they were bidding on UAL flying before they lost it) both took reductions on their current book pay rates even though at the time they were both profitable.

As far as DCI is concerned, you will be hard pressed to find any kind of airline (forget about "regional") that is as profitable as SkyWest and Chautauqua, and they both underbid the holy ship out of us for DCI growth, quite sucessfuly I might add.

General,

Its about time you started harping on your Comair pilot's blackballed from Delta thing again. I was beginning to worry about you. Don't forget to include Skywest pilots in your preferential hiring plans. You have ragged on them a bit as of late, so I think it only right to remind them their methods of getting turbine PIC by any means necessary is going to pay off.

Just to review, preferential hiring at Delta:
ASA, Air Force, Jet Blue, Navy, Chautauqua, Coast Guard, SkyWest, Marines, Skyway, Commutair, 99% of all corporate jobs, Army, Mesa, Air Wisconsin, Virgin America (maybe) and about 50% of all other airlines, Delta pilot and executive's sons and daughters, WMU interns, other Delta interns (including those at Comair) (did I miss any?)

Blackballed at Delta:
Comair, AirTran (Did I miss any?)

 

[General Lee]

Zing! Looks like it's time for ASA to step up. Expressjet got a good contract, so there is hope for us.

I think you will get a raise, but the Comair guys are paying for it. The difference of what they would have received and what they will receive is what your raise will be. Delta will still pay the same amount out that they would have with Comair, but now they don't have to add more money to give you a raise. Clear as mud.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WWEfan]

I'm starting to change my tune and think the Comair sellout might be a good thing. Someone told me the sellout was worth about $12 million. That money will come in handy for a few contract improvements for ASA's new contract.

p.s. I crossed out "support" and wrote "sold out" on my flight bag sticker. I think alot of our guys are just going to mail the stickers back.

 

[General Lee]

>>>>Why anyone would give up wages when your company is making plenty of money is beyond me.
Kingairer,

SkyWest, Mesa, Chautauqua and Mesaba all signed contracts significantly below Comair's to get growth, especialy in 70 seat AC. Recently Air Whisky and ACA (back when they were bidding on UAL flying before they lost it) both took reductions on their current book pay rates even though at the time they were both profitable.

As far as DCI is concerned, you will be hard pressed to find any kind of airline (forget about "regional") that is as profitable as SkyWest and Chautauqua, and they both underbid the holy ship out of us for DCI growth, quite sucessfuly I might add.

General,

Its about time you started harping on your Comair pilot's blackballed from Delta thing again. I was beginning to worry about you. Don't forget to include Skywest pilots in your preferential hiring plans. You have ragged on them a bit as of late, so I think it only right to remind them their methods of getting turbine PIC by any means necessary is going to pay off.

P38,

Not much I have to say here. You guys really should have been more vocal about helping our furloughs if you ever wanted help in the future from us. It just makes sense. Too bad really. ASA and CHQ stepped up to the plate, they really did.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[P38JLightning]

right.

>>>P38,

Not much I have to say here. You guys really should have been more vocal about helping our furloughs if you ever wanted help in the future from us. It just makes sense. Too bad really. ASA and CHQ stepped up to the plate, they really did.

Bye Bye--General Lee




If by "stepping up to the plate" what you really mean is sit idle while management did what they were going to do anyway then yes, they stepped up to the plate and belted a grand slam. Gees you're easily impressed. I admit our MEC acted like babies in regards to this issue and let your MEC chairman's out of the gate threats at the metting scheduled to discuss it influence their reaction, and many Comair pilots disagreed about that. Lots of us let them hear about it, and some of us even sent money to your furloughs (yeah that's right)

What's more, I heard a Delta furlough is already on property here. Could just be a rumor, but I heard it from a fairly reliable source and I hope its true, regardless of your ill aimed retribution towards the Comair rank and file.

By the way, how do you feel about the Comair LOA? Do you view it as helping out the mother ship? If we are spun off, this LOA will probably add hundreds of millions of dollars to the IPO, which will only help you out. Or do you view it as more 70 seaters being flown for sub Delta wages?

To all the rest,

We deserve to be criticized for this. By voting this in we have participated in the bidding war and for that I appologise. All I ask is that when you rag on us could you please use the phrase "they pulled a SkyWest on our @ss" afterall this was just a "temporary ace" the company needed to capture growth. I'm sure after we get the planes on property, then we'll bolster things up.

 

[Nindiri]

I'm not sure that the Skywest pilots will get the preferential interviews. Their CAT II program doesn't meet the General's requirements.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Got news for you ATRDRIVER.

ACA actually topped your contract when they signed on February 9, 2001. THEN Comair topped ACA...then Air Wisky topped Comair...Then Mesa...Air Wisky concessions...ACA concessions...CHQ...Mesaba....Eagle...then XJT...and now back to Comair.

-Neal

Notice where the backwards turnaround began...

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Well, lets see. Ours was signed in 1998, so that means for 3 years we had the industry leading contract, until ACA topped it. My point was, and is, the world didn't begin when you signed, and you aren't the only ones who have ever held the bar, so maybe it's time you stopped telling everyone how tired your arms are.

Uh...I don't work for Comair, ACA, or ASA. I work for ExpressJet. Just pointing out the facts.

-Neal

 

[dvmthwsvan]

hockeypilot44--The uneducated pilots over there finally sold respectable pilots like myself and just under half of the Comair guys out because we have the greatest job in the world and would do it for basically nothing.

You said you were one of 24, we had 40%. Who is the uneducated group?

hockeypilot44--When will our pilot group as a whole get respect for ourselves and bring this back to a profession?

When you quit calling us "Comiar Whores" and try convincing your own pilots to not take crap pay for planes. But then again, i can see why your so ticked off. This is 35 planes not going to CHQ. I guess I'd be mad if I were you too.

And for you ASA guys, i dont know why you all are so mad. You know once when I was about ten I tried to dunk a basketball. i tried for three years and could never seem to be able to. Then when my dad lowered the goal, bingo i got it. Now maybe it was only nine feet but at least it was taller than the fisher price goal that i had been dunking.

 

[ERJDRVR]

At least I can say what I have to say and not hide behind a new login name buddy.. If you can't take the heat, shut your mouth.

2,637 posts of pure stupidity.
2,638
2,639
..........

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Isn't it funny the most vitreol is spewed by a pair of Pinnacle and Chitauqua pilots? We are certainly no better than they -- but no worse either.

As has been noted by Blue, Air Wisconsin shortly after our strike inked a superior contract and then took post-911 concessions along with a then-UAL feeder ACA. Did they get this much flak?

No one is more disappointed by this vote than I but you have to put this in the context of current events...although it seems for some that they just need any excuse to bash Comair to prop up their own insecurities.

 

[Palerider957]

hockeypilot44--The uneducated pilots over there finally sold respectable pilots like myself and just under half of the Comair guys out because we have the greatest job in the world and would do it for basically nothing.

You said you were one of 24, we had 40%. Who is the uneducated group?

hockeypilot44--When will our pilot group as a whole get respect for ourselves and bring this back to a profession?

When you quit calling us "Comiar Whores" and try convincing your own pilots to not take crap pay for planes. But then again, i can see why your so ticked off. This is 35 planes not going to CHQ. I guess I'd be mad if I were you too.

And for you ASA guys, i dont know why you all are so mad. You know once when I was about ten I tried to dunk a basketball. i tried for three years and could never seem to be able to. Then when my dad lowered the goal, bingo i got it. Now maybe it was only nine feet but at least it was taller than the fisher price goal that i had been dunking.

Are you implying that we are all a bunch if children at ASA? Listen as.shole, we've put up with more shi.t then CMR pilots can imagine. I understand you guys had a choice to make and you made it. And yes, I'd rather see those planes at CMR then Shi.tty Kitty, but don't get on your high horse when you just took concessions without any fight AT ALL.

Overall I have great respect for the CMR pilot group, but you need a good as.s whipping.

 

[aewanabe]

Hey guys, I don't have any hatred about your vote/LOA. I think you were taken by a ride from your management, but you're doing what you feel is necessary to protect your pilot group, right? I think the vitriol from some of my CHQ brethren is backlash from the 2 plus years of hearing the "whore for growth" BS from assholes who don't know any better.

It's real simple, guys. Our payrates (and yours) don't buy airplanes! If so, we would have received all 25 airplanes from the last RFP. By the way our "exponential growth" for Delta has been 10 whole airplanes since our contract was signed, plus the agreement for 16 170s to come. At the end of our firm orders for Delta airplanes we'll have a whopping total of 48! So good luck with your payfreeze. And don't talk to me about any bars unless there's beer. Since my rate hasn't frozen I'll do the buyin'.

 

[doh]

General, I'm a career changer so when you start hiring I will be about 47-50. A little too old to change. But you really need to rethink this vitriol against the CMR group. Management makes the hiring decisions with a lot of input from your own management. To blame a bunch of guys who weren'y on the property and most likely had no idea there was even any controversy is kind of bush, don't you think? Besides that, abunch of us complained to the MEC about how that was handled any way. But hey, like Isaid, I don't really have a dog in this hunt.

 

[General Lee]

General, I'm a career changer so when you start hiring I will be about 47-50. A little too old to change. But you really need to rethink this vitriol against the CMR group. Management makes the hiring decisions with a lot of input from your own management. To blame a bunch of guys who weren'y on the property and most likely had no idea there was even any controversy is kind of bush, don't you think? Besides that, abunch of us complained to the MEC about how that was handled any way. But hey, like Isaid, I don't really have a dog in this hunt.

Doh,

It's always been like this at Comair. Everyone else helps them from time to time or supports them, and then when someone else needs help or support, they get the door slammed in their face. I have said it time and time again on this board that all the Comair pilots had to do was show a little support for our suffering furloughed pilots. Instead, all I ever saw was "this rule has been here forever, this rule cannot be changed because it is in our ops booklet.... never a "sorry guys, we will try to see what we can do for them, maybe talk to our management." Nope, and then they say "we don't make the rules..." The ASA people did not protest or give any phony lines (we all know Lawson wanted something in return), they offered help when their sister airline could not. Most of the ASA pilots weren't bothered by furloughed pilots joining them from the bottom ranks---not affecting them. But the Comair guys worried how that might affect later newhires. Then, they blamed it on training costs, which really came out of Delta's pockets. A lot of us could not understand why they as a group would not oppose this and actually say something other than "this is part of the Comair ten commandments, thou shalt not break these rules...." The ASA and CHQ guys seemed to welcome our furloughs, or at least tolerate them and understand that they were in a time of need. Just like you were during your strike. Why shouldn't that be rewarded someday? I think they should be first in line someday when we hire again. That doesn't mean you guys can't get in line.


P38,


ASA and CHQ shouldn't be rewarded for helping our furloughs? Is that what you are saying? Yes or no? They did help them. I don't know if there are any current furloughs at Comair. I wouldn't have gone---I would have gone to CHQ or ASA.


Nindiri,

I don't recall Skywest allowing our furloughs to come there without seniority resignation. This should be a reward for people that helped us.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ifly4food]

Hey FOOD,

Yea I fly for Comair and, like many, support your endevours and wish you the best. But confuse that with thinking that we or I owe you something.

Even with this freeze our agreement is something you can only hope for in this day and time. Quit crying and improve your own state of affairs.

Yeah, we should improve our state of affairs. You left us no choice but to undercut you and take away your prized -170s, or see you take our airplanes away. Thanks for starting a US Air style race to the bottom.

And no, I'm not crying.