Comair or stay with Eagle a fifth year?

[Goodstick]

I'm looking for some advice from some of my fellow regional pilots....mainly comair guys. I'd like to know whats up with comair these days besides the normal squables between mainline/regional etc. I'd like to know what the projections for growth are and what hiring will be like for the next few years. I'm not that concerned about starting out at first year pay again because by the second year I would match what Eagle pays. I'd also like to know about other things like expected bases/ moral/ and TIME TO UPGRADE!!! will soon hit my fifth year and still a bottom feeder FO : (
Thanks fellas

 

[wil]

Sorry I'm ASA but I have to respond. We have a lot of Eagle pilots over here and my advise would be to go for Comair (or ASA if you could). I typed Jan 11 2003 on the CRJ and just celebrated 3 years on Jun 1 (I know- whoopiedy doo!). I have friends at eagle that are 3 years in and still 4 years away for Saab upgrade! They have submitted their resumes' with me! I wish you the best. I think Comair will be growing and the upgrade time I think would be 2 1/2 to 3 years. All the best, Wil

 

[wil]

I forgot, as a side note our Delta benefits (Comair, ASA) are probably the best in the industry!!

 

[PacoPollo]

Sorry I'm ASA but I have to respond. We have a lot of Eagle pilots over here and my advise would be to go for Comair (or ASA if you could). I typed Jan 11 2003 on the CRJ and just celebrated 3 years on Jun 1 (I know- whoopiedy doo!). I have friends at eagle that are 3 years in and still 4 years away for Saab upgrade! They have submitted their resumes' with me! I wish you the best. I think Comair will be growing and the upgrade time I think would be 2 1/2 to 3 years. All the best, Wil

Depressing.....very depressing

Its only 3yrs at AE for crj FO.
8-10YRS CA upgrade ..just to be on reserve ......

 

[LearLove]

About 5 at eagle would put you about the same place I'm at with Allegheny. Being in kind of the same situation I'm now where your comming from brother. I know it hurts to see guys way junior to us at other companies upgrade ahead of you. Some of my former pvt pilot students went to chit taco and have already upgraded while I sit downgraded, O well guess thats the bizz.

Anyway I went thru your situation last summer but decided to stay. Even had an interview sked. with Comair but told them I'd like to wait it out. John Smith was very cool about it by the way. Thanks John.

My though process was this, maybe it will help you.

First I left the to companies (ALG and Comair) out of it and tried to get down to the basics.

1. I'm currently employed
2. I have a line and good sked as a senior FO and it pays the bills
3. I don't have anyone to support so being out of a job won't kill me.
4. I don't have debt or a house payment, just a car payment that could easily be covered by unemployment.
5. Understanding parents that would let me move home and feed me while I got another job. Thus only have to pay the car payment, I'd actually make money off unemployment. Plus my hometown FBO where I flew as a kid would let me instruct so I could stay current and show continus employment while looking.

What kind of did it for me was #2. All I ever wanted was to fly with a set sked and thats what I have so I decided not to Fvck with it for now. Also I'm pretty young so I could weather getting screwed to the point where I need to jump ship and still (with a little luck) get on with another company by the time I'm 30 and have plenty of time to build back up.

All in all if things work out over here (and thats a big if) it will be pretty sweet and if they don't well then like I said at least for now I have the privlage of being young enough to start again or maybe I'll just go to dental school. Better yet law school, then on to be a senator or congressman so I could make laws like your allowed to sue people for being an a$$hole greedy bastard. Then I'd go back into law and sue the crap out of Beebe for all the $hit he has put some very hard working dedicated pilots thru. I'd also have a clause in there that if you win the case your allowed to kick said person square in the nuts. O sorry thats alittle of the subject.

So myh brotha from anotha mothea, if any of this applies to you maybe it will help. Then again Comair looks to be a good shot although I wouldn't want to be at the bottom of anyones list now, you just never know in this bizz. I say just make a decision and go with it and don't look back either way, you don't have much control over the industry anyway

Tomorrows headlines: Cape Air signs 30 year contract with US Military, in news just released Cape Air will purchace from Boeing 30 cargo and 30 pax configured 767's to support the US military airlift needs. All pilots to be paid industry average for 767....bla bla bla

Hey you never know

Good Luck

 

[English]

(CaptRob's reply under English's screenname)


Dude, I feel your pain.

As a 6 year Saab Captain at Eagle, I have had numerous, read that more than a few, first officers tell me about drooling over their chances at a Comair interview. The last first officer I flew with is leaving Eagle next week for a mid June training date at Comair.

All I can say is... Go for it. All the reasons for staying at Eagle are gone. You can take all the stuff Ed Criner wrote before and after Sept 11 and throw it out. Eagle is no longer the most financially stable regional operator. There (never was) is no flow thru. There is no future. Eagle is about to become the graveyard of TWA first officers and Captains that didn't have the seniority to stay at AA. If Eagle gets to operate 500+ RJ's, many will be outsourced to TSA and Chautauqua where there is even less stability. The simple fact that AA and APA negotiated a change to letter 3/supplement W without involving Eagle ALPA should tell you all you need to know. (Not to flame the AA guys, but that did suck...)

I have been a year from the jet for over 3 years now. It sucks to be me. Don't let it happen to you. Being married to my wife is great, but the job is... let's say I have alot of things to say about our management when the sterile light goes out...

 

[Goodstick]

You are all classy individuals. Thanks for the kind words. Leaving Eagle would be the hardest decision I've ever had to make...Guess I haven't lived much: ) But I need to decide what is better for my future based on the facts. I have dealt with too much disappointment at Eagle and have to revaluate my options. Comair has in the last 4 years become a much more lucrative carreer. I respect the stand you guys made. I have a nice poloroid of your ramp during the strike. Eagle is beyond help with a regressive, endless contract. So any other info from anyone in the know (not just Comair guys) would be appreciated in helping me make the decision. Mainly I'm looking at growth projections, aircraft deliveries, what they telling you guys about training etc.

 

[generaltso]

I have a question for eagle guys. There is an instructor at my FBO who had just got hired before 9/11 (in to the Saab). Needless to say he got furloughed. He didn't finish IOE.

I was talking with him about what a mistake it was to go to Eagle. He said when he got there (Sept 2001), Saab upgrades were running 2 years, and if it wasn't for 9/11 he would have been a Saab Captain right now.

I told him he was crazy. I thought even before 9/11 that Saab upgrade was running 4 years or so.... is that true? He said Eagle is a great place. But like I said, he never made it to the line to really see what a "great place" it is.

I don't work for Eagle, but I do know a lot of captains who are fed up with the company.

I think what it boils down to is some people are too naive about the regionals. When you go to the interview the Eagle HR says "oh this is a great place to be, upgrades are at 2 years and we are getting lots of jets. And you will flow through to AA in a few years". The sad thing is, I think a lot of people believed them... like this instructor.

 

[WorldSeries]

i think either way you would be in a good place. comair pay is not too bad after 1st yr. 35.75 an hr. and 38 plus on the 70 seater..what is eagles 2nd yr. FO pay on the jet ??

 

[Toecutter]

Leaving Eagle should not be a hard decision. I was at Eagle only a year before I realized I needed to bail, and that was when times were still good. If you go to Comair/ASA, even if you have to wait 3-5 years to upgrade, at least you'll be making about the same as a Saab captain. Get out while you still can. The only thing you'll miss is your HI3,HI6, etc.

 

[PositiveRate]

I was furlouged from Eagle (SJU based ATR for all of 9 weeks on line before the bad news). I was lucky enough to get hired at Comair...This is my 10th month. Reserve was only 4-5 months and everyone in my class (and WELL below me on the list) is getting a good line. LOTS of Eagle guys/gals are here. I've heard that HR likes us because we were well trained at AE and they don't have to worry about us going back ;-)

The growth behind my class has been excellent...I think they ran a class every week for X number of months. The hiring projections continue to look good. The one BIG question mark is what will happen past next year as far as aircraft deliveries are concerned. I believe we're only on paper for 7 70 seaters and 1 or 2 50 seaters next year. Upgrades are down into the 2 1/2- 3yr guys right now, but if we stop taking planes, that will go back up and the guys on the bottom at the end of the year might be stuck for a while. There's not much attrition here (or anywhere) these days. But, if hired, you will have a future at comair (retirement, great travel bennies...no frickin' D2 charges!)....Eagle seems to be a dying entity as far as career progression is concerned.

Bases - when I interviewed in 3/02 they told us DFW was a certainty. Then this winter everyone was saying SLC would be next (haven't heard much of that lately). The new rumour is ATL. I've flown with numerous captains who've said the base rumours have been floating around since they started 5+ years ago and they'll believe it when they see it. I am kind of that mindset now.

Take it for what it's worth. Pay is much better than Eagle, moral is pretty good, equipment is excellent and our trips and route structure have a lot to offer for most tastes. Good luck with your decision.

 

[English]

(CaptRob, once again using English's screenname...)

As far as the F/O pay at Eagle is concerned...

If you can make $38/hr at Comair in the second year as an F/O, there is no decision to make. I'm a 6th year Captain in the Saab. Our contracted level of pay is (fan fare that starts big, then kinda fades off with an obvious lack of enthusiasm by the horn players...) $44.47.

$6/hr more for 4 more years and the responsiblity of the Captain? You will not make more than $28/hr at Eagle for quite a while, at least 3 years, I believe.

Take the leap, it will be alright. And, Luke, I am your father...

 

[LearLove]

Tuff decision either way.....

However this just came to mind......

Remember what Gann said about "thoes who mess with the numbers..."

 

[JohnDoe]

Goodstick,

I'd say its a no-brainer: Go to Comair.

Looks like you'll make more on second year FO pay there than you ever would at eagle as an FO, and almost as much as a Saab captain at eagle would (if the pay scale for comair I saw is accurate).

Plus, barring any unfortunate changes, you'll probably upgrade at comair quicker.

With, what, about 10 years left on the contract at eagle, it is not going to get any better........

Good luck whatever you do.




generaltso:

There was a brief window of opportunity when turboprop upgrades at eagle were under 2 years. I mangaged to get a Saab upgrade in 1 1/2 years there (the training date was about 3-4 months after that).

 

[Red Baron]

Eagle

I will add my input. I have been at Eagle for close to 6 years. I did get an upgrade on the Saab at 1 year 10 months. Yeah, I was fortunate. That was obviously way before 9-11 when all was going well. Upgrades galore, and lots of new aircraft. Now, well I am being displaced back to first officer. No one likes to go backwards in a career because all pilots (well most) are motivated to keep going. We are at an impasse with the letter 3, but we hope for a brighter day. Fortunately for me, I am in the pool at SWA. So Eagle helped me get where I always wanted to be, and for that I am grateful.

Goodstick,
As far as staying here, that is a tough question. It really looks bleak. Weigh all your options, and do what is best for you. If you go, we hate to see you leave, but would be wishing you the best. My best friend works at CMR, and he loves it. Pay is great (for regionals), and it has stability for now. However, he doesn't want it to be his final stop.

Best wishes for you in your decision.

Regards,

RB

 

[Caveman]

I have a friend that I worked with as flight instructors. He went to Eagle. Last year after 2 1/2 years at Eagle he bailed to come to CMR. Although he said it was one of the toughest choices he's ever had to make he can not believe how much better it is over here. His 1st paycheck after IOE was bigger than ANY paycheck he ever got at Eagle. He's now a lineholder and loving every minute of it. He also said that he will still upgrade here 5 years before he ever would if he still worked at Eagle. He did say that the training at Eagle was a bit more organized.

One bit of caution. Until the economy recovers and the impact of scope resets and mainline concessions are worked out the amount of growth at CMR is finite. As of right now there are no 40/50 seat RJs scheduled for delivery in CY '04 and only 7 confirmed 70 seat RJ's in '04. Based on this I believe that growth at CMR will slow to a snails pace. That means you may be on reserve a bit longer than what has been the norm and Capt upgrades might start to slide back towards the 4 year mark. This is pure speculation on my part. The future at CMR is still very positive and hiring will steadily continue. We are on track to hire about 350-400 this year. I think until the dust settles that number will slow to 150-200 for next year. Again, this is only my uneducated, somewhat informed, biased opinion.

Under the circumstances I still think that CMR is a better place to be if you are an FO at Eagle. If I were an RJ Capt at Eagle I would stay put. The real tough choice is what to do if you are a Saab Capt at Eagle. It would be hard to walk away from the seniority and livable pay to go to the bottom of someone else's list. It would be equally hard to stay quagmired in a stagnant position with no hope for upward mobility within the next decade.

Make the switch. Good luck to you.

Caveman

 

[ACE]

Goodstick,
It is always a tough decision to give up seniority to go back to the bottom with another company. All I can say is just way the pros and cons. You will come up with your own answer.

 

[LearLove]

Welcome to the downgrade club

"Now, well I am being displaced back to first officer. No one likes to go backwards in a career because all pilots (well most) are motivated to keep going. "

Yeah baby, join the party in the rt. seat. The best is when you fly with a Capt. who wants you to do all the work (e.i. paperwork, call dispatch for another alt. ect.) just because you were a capt. once so you know how to do it bla, bla, bla. At least now you don't have to wear your hat, apperantly somewhere ther's an unwritten rule where downgraded guys don't need to have a hat.

have fun

 

[Dr. Hootie]

If you can get an interview with Comair - take it and best of luck to you. It's a no brainer.

 

[English]

Go GO GO!!!

I left Eagle a couple of months before 9/11. There were naysayers around every corner criticizing me for leaving a "stable" position for the unknown.

So much for the unknown. What I do know is, if I would have stayed at Eagle, I'd be a Saab first officer still with no upgrade in sight. I'd be living with my parents because I would not have been able to afford the house I just bought.

Instead, I jumped ship. Now I have found a different branch of aviation that I really enjoy. I have three type ratings and am much more marketable than I would have been had I stayed at Eagle. I've learned a great deal more than I would have if I'd stayed flying in a base with only six destinations.

I truly appreciated Eagle because of the training I received. You will probably never experience such organized training again in your career. Eagle training was better than anything I have experienced since, including Flight Safety. There is no comparison here. But unfortunately, there is only one positive on the list of why to stay at Eagle, unless you have other quality of life issues. Opportunities are better elsewhere.

 

[SomOne]

Goodstick

I understand that everyone situation is different. But here is my.

I'm leaving Eagle next week to start with Comair on June 16th. I've been with Eagle for over 2 1/2 years. I thought about going to Comair about a year ago, but never got too serious about it until couple months ago. I stay at Eagle this long because I always thought that things would get better soon, and of course it's not easy to start all over again. Then again, there are a lot of 15 year captains who have been saying that all along... it will get better soon. Well, I have nothing against them or anyone else. They have their reasons to stay, and I have mine.

Here are some of my main reasons to go to Comair:
1.) Medical insurance is half as cheap as at Eagle. I'm paying about $190/mo at Eagle for a family of 4. At Comair, it will only cost me about $95/mo.
2.) I won't have to pay D2 charges any more. I used to pay about 80 -100 dollars a month to commute from CA to TX.
3.) Comair has a Pension Plan. It is very important to me, because I'm almost 40.
4.) I will make more money on second year pay (37/hr or 41/hr) at Comair than what I'd be making at Eagle as a 8 yr FO.
5.) I don't see any upgrade coming up any time soon. So if I'm going to be stuck as an FO, I might just well be stuck with a company that has better pay and contract.

Well, there are more to talk about, but those are the main ones.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[kommutrdog]

How did you get your Comair interview? I'm trying to jump ship after 4.5 years at my current job...the ship is sinking and I too need to plan for some retirement.

Did you have any recommendations, or go to a Career Fair ??

At 4500tt and lots of part 121 exp. I think I'd be somewhat competitive, but who knows now days.

Thanks.

 

[SomOne]

Kommutrdog

I faxed my resume and had one walked in about a year ago. I then called John Smith up couple of times, and each time he told me that I'm on the preference list. However the poeple who went to the job fairs always got ahead of me. I skiped 2 job fairs and never got the call for the interview. I finally went to one few months back and got the interview set up right there.

So, if you're serious about it go to the job fair. I know it's kinda expensive, but it's worth it.

 

[kommutrdog]

Thanks !

Thanks for the info. I am planning on going to the job fair in June. I don't want to shell out more $$, but at this point, I really don't think it matters.

Thanks again.