Comair or Eagle

[cr7driver]

I am in a bit of a dilemma. Can anyone help?
I am currently working at American eagle as a crj-700 FO. Furthermore, I just got hired at Comair. No class date yet, just a letter indicating that I am in the pool. I am trying to figure out if I should leave eagle and go to Comair or just stay where I am at. I would hate to give up 3.5 years at eagle to come to the bottom of the Comair list. Does anyone have ANY info about Comair? What are their plans for: hiring, buying more A/C, pay cuts, upgrades..etc etc
Any info or suggestions will help.
Thx

 

[blott]

why did you interview with Comair?

B

 

[PacoPollo]

Dude, Weight your options...Like do you commute? or will have to,quality of life, Pay, MORALE etc Upgrade time at AE is
down the toilet. And now have to put up with the flowbies...
really suck.

GOOD LUCK

 

[Treme]

Paco said, "Upgrade time at AE is down the toilet."

Unless you've read something that I havent read regarding Comair aircraft deliveries for 2004 and beyond I would guess that Comair upgrade times are in the "greater than 7 year" toilet as well.

Now, of course, somebody is going to come back and say "no, upgrades are running 2.5 - 3 years at Comair!"

I think those days are gone.

There are roughly 1800 pilots at Comair at last count.

Lets keep the math simple. roughly 10 pilots per plane -- 5 captains and 5 f/o's.

Lets assume that most Captains are around number 1000 and below.

In order for number 1801 -- the next newhire -- to upgrade you have to assume that one of two things will have to happen:

#1. roughly 800 guys leave Comair or retire, or...

#2. Comair will have to acquire another 160 airplanes.

(example: 160 airplanes = 1600 additional pilots. That would make our guy #1801 out of #3400 -- around 52% down the list)

I realize that the cutoff for Captain upgrade isnt at exactly 50% since some people don't have the time and bypass the upgrade and some people wait until they can hold a line etc... but you get the idea.

The 3 year upgrades that people are enjoying right now were generated by people leaving in the late 90s, and rapid aircraft deliveries (which are about to come to a stop).

I admit my numbers are a bit basic, but it seems to me that somebody hired at Comair today will likely not upgrade for 7 - 10 years unless the company takes delivery of more airplanes.

Make sure you take everything into account before you leave Eagle. Good luck!

 

[cr7driver]

why did you interview with Comair?

B

I am looking for something better. Eagle has destroyed any hope of professional or financial growth. However, if I do choose Comair over Eagle, I would move to Cincinnati. But I don’t want to change companies and take up a job with a company that isn’t going to grow. At the interview we were told that upgrades will take 2.5 yrs, but a more realistic number is about 4 yrs.
I have been hearing some disturbing news about Comair as far as pay cuts and stunted growth. I was just looking to see if there is any truth to that.

 

[Heavy Set]

Where do you want to be in 5-10 years? If you want to be with a strong regional, Comair is probably a good bet. Your job security would be pretty strong.

I thought that AE had better prospects for upgrade, etc. after the court/arbitration ruling against the APA? Won't that improve upgrade times? If you like Dallas, maybe you should stay where you are...

Have you considered Netjets? I don't believe they are hiring at the moment, but I noted a former AE CRJ700 FO works there as a Galaxy FO (look for CRJ700FO using the search function). Maybe you could contact him for advice - wouldn't be bad to fly a Citation X at mach 0.92...

Good luck.

 

[cr7driver]

Thanks for the input. Honestly in 5yrs I would like to see myself in the left seat, and after that start trying to get on at Jetblue, southwest or Airtran. However, if that doesn't work, then I would be just as happy at CMR, but I would never stop trying. I guess I could wait a bit longer to upgrade, but while I wait I'll probably make more money. I am just concerned that stagation might set in. Seems as though retirements at CMR will be slow cuz the pilot group there is quite young.
Any more comments or input will help.
Thx....

 

[cr7driver]

By the way concerning upgrade times at AE.
It seems as though the flowbacks will be here. Even with the recent win in the courts, the group at AE is poised for a rather strong rear ramming!
Flying for the fractionals: not a bad idea. However, as crazy as this sounds, I enjoy being an airline pilot. I was a corporate pilot for a while and I did not enjoy the job as much as I enjoy mine now. Well, except for the crappy pay and benefits! I guess that I still enjoy flying!!!!

 

[Rogue5]

I just met an Eagle dude at a wedding last week and was witness to a half-hour blasting of his company. Such a bummer to hear a guy who repeatedly say how much he hates his company and how he "wouldn't lift one finger" to help his company out. Seems he too is about 3-4 years in and even as bitter as he was couldn't see himself making the move to another company, and to the bottom of another list.

His plan was to wait for his wife to get a raise and then he was gonna quit flying altogether. Major bummer.

On the other hand, I know lots of regional pilots at other companies (including my own) who are pretty darn happy. Luck and timing play a major role. Perhaps Comair would be a positive move...

BTW, dig the new avatar. After a long and hard search I have found one that accurately represents my state of mind 99.3% of the time...

 

[Slim]

I understand all your concerns. Allow me to add some info on some of the benefits at CMR vs. AE.

The medical plan at CMR is far better. You'll pay less on a monthly basis for medical and dental than at AE. The co-pay is a fixed dollar amount.

Travel at CMR is free, and includes DAL and ASA. There are no D2 service charges.

The 401(k) is better in that there are more investment options. Retirement contributions are a percentage of your income ranging from 2-10%. It goes into the 401(k) and is entirely funded by CMR. This does not include the 401(k) matching contribution which is 50% of the first five per-cent of pay.

I'm a former AMR employee. I know you're benefits at AE aren't the same as mine were, but they were similar.

I have flown with several former AE pilots. Not one of them is sorry about leaving AE.

Good luck...fly safe!

 

[cr7driver]

Thanks for the input. I understand the benefits are better, however, I am most concerned about the upgrade times. Any guesses?? I guess professional growth is what matters to me.

 

[LearLove]

I feel your pain brother.......

"Thanks for the input. I understand the benefits are better, however, I am most concerned about the upgrade times. Any guesses?? I guess professional growth is what matters to me."

Looks like your situation is similar to mine. I have just over 4 years here at ALG. There has been zero foward movement since June 02 and none on the horizon. At least I got a type and some 121 PIC out of it.

About a year ago I was a similar question about Comair for myself and decided to stay basically because I calculated the same results as Treme above. Why go to the bottom of another and sit reserve? You know bird in hand.

Not anything against Comair, great company, good guys, the best equipment, and a solid contract. Eagle, well you have the equipment, a solid company and your holding a solid line (I assume) so your flying on a sked and not reserve or biuldup so basically nobody screws with you, you get to fly and go home as you please. Then there are the other issues such as pay cut (first year pay), dealing with training again, new faces, moving ect., for bacisally the same thing but the bottom of the list.

A friend I went thru upgrade with left back in Jan after we got downgraded for Comair. It was an easier commute for him plus some other stuff, but he basically tells me the same as above, he gained some job security and a jet but doesn't hold a line and basically the same pay and bennies. He's happy but being closer to home is what broke the deal for him to switch companies, but says he'll be an FO for a long time.

Anyway hope it helps, I feel your pain, welcome to the land of 6 plus year commuter FO's.

Now if comair announced orders for another 50 crj's then its a whole nother ball game.

Good Luck

PS - join the 15000+ of us in the push for AirTran. Come on, like the HR fax machine down there in FL isn't already working overtime.

 

[USAirways1149]

geez, I never looked at the numbers before as they're discussed above.

I wonder if they're still telling Comair newhires that it'll be 2.5 years to upgrade and, if so, how they're coming up with that number?

 

[tubelo]

I asked about upgrade time in my interview, and the interviewing captain stated about 5 years, but that is because a lot of my time is helo.

 

[Goodstick]

cr7driver,
You are facing the same dilema that I was facing a few months ago. I have been with Eagle for 4.5 years and after the mass flowback talks I put out my resumes. If you do a search, you could probably find my thread...there was quite a bit of info that helped me make my decision. Comair called but here is the reason why I didn't accept.
-I evaluated that with my seniority, there would be a slim chance of furlough even with all the flowbacks.
-I didn't want to have to live or commute to CVG. Eagle has the most bases of any regional.
-Comair is only taking something like 7 A/C deliveries next year...so it may e a while before upgrade (in year 2 at comair as an fo you would make more then your 5 yr pay at AE) But for me I was more interested in PIC time.
-I Didn't really want to go thru all the hoops again i.e. traiing, probation, even the computer ops
-Now that we may have somewhere around 450 flowbacks, our upgrade will be slowed by at least 2 years (assuming 20 Cpt/Mo) assuming A/C deliverires continue beyond 2 years we may then start to upgrade again...at least thats the way I figure it. But at least our FO relative seniority will increase in the mean time.

Those were the main reasons why I stayed but the one thing I know in this industry is its a crp shoot. I may find myself applying to Comair in 10 years so I definetly tried to convey a good impression when I turned them down. You have to consider the whole pay/benefits at Comair is much better now. When I got on with AE in 99, it was a much more attractive choice. I wish that I had gone to Comair but now that I am here it makes better sense for me to tough it out.
Hope this helps

 

[FurloughedAgain]

What did you decide to do?

 

[eaglefly]

My personal advice - Don't depend on AMR for a future.

They've failed that test REPEATEDLY over the last 10 years.

No guarantees at Comair due to timing, but if I was a betting man, with your worthless 3.5 years, it's a no brainer.

At Comair you could be flying the same 70-seater as a new-hire and your 2nd year pay would equal your 5th year pay at Eagle.

The rest of the bennies and work rules at 2nd year match 5 th year at Eagle.

As far as upgrade goes, count on another 5 years at Eagle. Comair should be no more than that.

You should have learned by now not to listen to the AMR violins promising a desirable future.

Garbage.