Comair Mec Endorses Pay Cuts

[Occam's Razor]

But I do remember a letter from Howard Attarian, Northwest pilot, ALPA's Executive Administrator, mouthpiece for Woerth and a firm believer in the plantation. It was well into the strike and said in effect: take the 2nd settlement offer - it's the best you guys can do - you're feeder pilots after all - what do you expect?

Wow! Six years ago a guy from Herndon told you what he thought was best...and that means Herndon calls the shots at Comair?

I don't think even YOU believe that's so.

Let's read on and see...

Comair pilots considered the content of the overnight mailgram then voted down the settlement offer by over 90%. ALPA may have learned something about sending letters to Comair pilots.

How 'bout that! Comair pilots decided for themselves!

It appears the system works, even when you claim there is undue influence from ALPA. Not my opinion...you typed it yourself.

Thanks, and good luck!

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'm a big man, I can admit that I mixed up the MCF and OCF, which is why I didn't bring up the MCF in the first place. It's the OCF whose funds are dwindling and are funded in part by ALPA dues, which do not go into the MCF.

Good for you.

I'll paint a picture for you from thirty thousand feet. ALPA is funded by the pilots. If a pilot group goes away, ALPA loses money. Simple enough for a "high-brow" fighter jock to understand? Good.

Um...other than the fact that your generalization is wrong...yes, I understand. Here's your boo boo: Some pilot groups spend more than they pay in dues. In fact, it's more than a few.

That simple enough for a "big man" to understand from thirty thousand feet?

I understand why you're bitter; you've got the golden handcuffs on, probably have a family and all, and you're facing a paycut. That's not an easy thing for anybody to accept..

1. Not bitter.
2. They ain't handcuffs, but they are gold!
3. If I can't get by on $145k a year, I'll PM you with my acceptance concerns. So far though, all's well.

I wish the Comair guys the best, they deserve better. They deserve a Union better than ALPA

We agree on at ONE thing! I wish Comair pilots the best, too.

As my grandfather told me, you don't need to see the color of a man's shoelaces to tell he's an a**hole and just because his eyes aren't brown doesn't mean he's not full of sh*t

Sounds like your grandad had a fecal fetish. Mine just told me to be nice to jerks.

This is me calling you, Occam, both.

Feel better? I hope so. Take care. Fly safe, buddy!

(See, grandad? I'm trying!)

 

[XJohXJ]

.......

 

[737 Pylt]

Wow! Six years ago a guy from Herndon told you what he thought was best...and that means Herndon calls the shots at Comair?

I don't think even YOU believe that's so.

Let's read on and see...



How 'bout that! Comair pilots decided for themselves!

It appears the system works, even when you claim there is undue influence from ALPA. Not my opinion...you typed it yourself.

Thanks, and good luck!

Be easy on N2264J!
Ever since 9 out of 10 claims got thrown out, his whole career path has taken a different turn. He now actually has to go out and apply to get on with a better airline! He had planned to spend (no less than ) $100,000,000 on different things, but that's all changed!:laugh:
Besides, he and his circle jerk of cadres over at the rjdc are drowning their sorrows over the dying of their case thanks to the cmr mec testimony (thanks, JC):beer: !

737

 

[Regul8r]

Um...other than the fact that your generalization is wrong...yes, I understand. Here's your boo boo: Some pilot groups spend more than they pay in dues. In fact, it's more than a few.

I'm sorry, it wasn't my opinion. It's a FACT. Try to keep up with me here, Capt. Attention Deficit...I did not mention anything about spending in my generalization.

Sounds like your grandad had a fecal fetish. Mine just told me to be nice to jerks.

Who am I to judge the man. He made a lotta money. So I'd say the ends justified the means.

By the way, $145k? You really don't want to get into that pissing contest. Do yourself a favor and shut your mouth while you're still behind, Sport

My guess is that you're an ALPA officer, am I correct on that?

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'm sorry, it wasn't my opinion. It's a FACT. Try to keep up with me here, Capt. Attention Deficit...I did not mention anything about spending in my generalization.

Ha! Your premise was that losing a pilot group would be financially detrimental to ALPA. I pointed out that the C- you got in Econ 101 was a gift.

In glidslope terms, you're 2-dots low and sinking.

By the way, $145k? You really don't want to get into that pissing contest. Do yourself a favor and shut your mouth while you're still behind, Sport

Yeah, I'm poor. But as long as I can use my food stamps to buy Twinkies and Yoo Hoo!, I'm cool.

My guess is that you're an ALPA officer, am I correct on that?

You are 100% incorrect. And not just on that guess, but on your whole line of logic, and your lame assertions.

 

[Regul8r]

Ha! Your premise was that losing a pilot group would be financially detrimental to ALPA. I pointed out that the C- you got in Econ 101 was a gift.

So you're saying that ALPA can stand to lose a carrier here and there? Just like their dwindling membership over the past two decades? I'm no econ major, but it sounds like when you run out of funding, you're out of business. Maybe you guys should take a few notes from SWAPA and SWA, they seem to be leading the pack in the 121 world and they're not affiliated with ALPA.

Yeah, I'm poor. But as long as I can use my food stamps to buy Twinkies and Yoo Hoo!, I'm cool.

Trust me, you don't want to be drinking and eating that. You'll medical out before 65. You're probably 47ish I'd say and as I did point out before, you are locked in at Comair for the rest of your career. Financially, you can't go anywhere else because of the paycut. You'll need those extra 5 years to fund your retirement. You're not bitter, you're just scared. Better get working on that Universal seniority list, it's a good place to start.

You are 100% incorrect. And not just on that guess, but on your whole line of logic, and your lame assertions.

That explains why you're gung-ho for the lost cause which is ALPA. Keep beating your drum there trying to garner support. As you would say, in Aviation Terms: I had sex with your wife while you were gone on your last trip.

 

[Occam's Razor]

So you're saying that ALPA can stand to lose a carrier here and there? Just like their dwindling membership over the past two decades? I'm no econ major, but it sounds like when you run out of funding, you're out of business.

I apologize for suggesting you only got a C- in Econ. I should have said D-. Here's the way that whole "economics" thingy works:

If a pilot group, we'll call 'em "XXX", requires $100,000 to operate for a year...yet they only pay $90,000 a year in dues, there is a financial benefit to having them leave your association. Since that hypothetical is, in fact, an accurate description of the revenue/cost relationship with several of the smaller ALPA carriers, you might want to try some other area of ALPA to bash. Q.E.D. your assertion that ALPA can't financially afford to lose a pilot group is wrong.

Thankfully, ALPA doesn't exist to turn a profit. It exists as a resource for us to protect and enhance our careers. If you want to argue something intelligently, there's some fertile ground for debate in that objective. But you might want to stand-down from your financial claims. That's a 600 RVR discussion and you don't have a CAT III grasp of the facts.

Maybe you guys should take a few notes from SWAPA and SWA, they seem to be leading the pack in the 121 world and they're not affiliated with ALPA.

I wish them well. The APA too.

Trust me, you don't want to be drinking and eating that. You'll medical out before 65. You're probably 47ish I'd say and as I did point out before, you are locked in at Comair for the rest of your career.

Since I'm not a Comair pilot, maybe you're the one suffering the debilitating effects of poor nutrition.

Financially, you can't go anywhere else because of the paycut. You'll need those extra 5 years to fund your retirement. You're not bitter, you're just scared. Better get working on that Universal seniority list, it's a good place to start.

I was wrong, you have a "Day VFR" grasp of the facts.

That explains why you're gung-ho for the lost cause which is ALPA. Keep beating your drum there trying to garner support.

If "beating the drums" means I point out the stuff you have wrong, then call me Charlie Watts!

As you would say, in Aviation Terms: I had sex with your wife while you were gone on your last trip.

Ooo! Very close! I was gonna say, "At least somebody is!", but in truth, my wife went with me on my last trip. A perk of being "empty nesters". Don't feel slighted though, you've got that "empty-headed" thing goin' for you!

Grow up. Get a clue. Fly safe.

 

[Regul8r]

Settle down there Old Man River, we don't need you getting all excited on us and breaking a hip. While I can't recite the Communist Manifesto word for word, I understand enough of it to realize that communism sounds good in principle, but doesn't work. Same deal with ALPA. To put it in your "cute" aviation terms, I have an EVS on my equipment.

You are proof positive that ALPA is indeed a poor Union to be involved with. Your financial knowledge is weak at best, go ahead and cut loose those smaller carriers and tell me how your revenue picture looks in 5 years.

As the Skywest pilots know, ALPA is not the right decision. ALPA is an entity whose officers are using it as a financial windfall. You know you need the membership to keep funding your ALPA paychecks, and that's all you're concerned about. Go ask Prater to take a 75% paycut and lets see how interested he is in the job. Don't hand me this BS about being a resource to protect pilot's careers. You've held the pilots hands on the way to the bottom. And you're still doing it! Go tell your story to the ex-Eastern pilots and the pilots who lost their pensions. I'm sure your impressive "facts" would fall on deaf ears. Furthermore, you'd probably get kicked in the teeth. People might listen to you if guys like Woerthless weren't getting over half a million a year in compensation. I'm sure he could really relate to a regional pilot's lifestyle while he was in a five star hotel! But, like any politician, you guys will scratch each others backs and defend your outrageous paychecks and your cushy schedules. The day you guys do the job for free is the day you'll get the attention of your members. That tip is on the house!

As I said before...Comair would be very wise to form their own in-house Union with Comair's best interests in mind. You should have declared an emergency a long time ago, you've just run out of gas!

 

[Regul8r]

double post

 

[N2264J]

Don't hand me this BS about being a resource to protect pilot's careers. You've held the pilots hands on the way to the bottom. And you're still doing it!

Yes they are.

It's been established before that Occam's Razor is a Northwest pilot.

You know what those guys did to Pinnacle and Mesaba? They got a $15 million dollar bargaining credit for allowing the company to outsource 40 growth airplanes. Diverted from their brothers at Mesaba and Pinnacle! How does a union justify this behavior?

Read about it here:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/110804up.pdf

Instead of plugging the holes in Merger and Alter Ego policy at the ALPA BOD 2000, what the regionals got for their resolution was the Bi Lateral Scope Impact Committee, "ALPA's highest priority." The BSIC is a smoke screen that allowed ALPA to move 7 years down the road without having to address the problem. Result: Mid Atlantic, Republic, Freedom, GoJet, Compass and the downward pressure on everybody's contract (including the mainline carriers) they provided.

ALPA is a sorry, unconscionable excuse for a union.

So, how's that Brand Scope workin' out for ya? [hint: there isn't any]

 

[Occam's Razor]

You are proof positive that ALPA is indeed a poor Union to be involved with. Your financial knowledge is weak at best, go ahead and cut loose those smaller carriers and tell me how your revenue picture looks in 5 years.

"weak"? One of us doesn't understand the concept of negative cash flow. He's wearing your underpants right now.

As the Skywest pilots know, ALPA is not the right decision. ALPA is an entity whose officers are using it as a financial windfall. You know you need the membership to keep funding your ALPA paychecks, and that's all you're concerned about.

I don't get an ALPA paycheck, but I understand your point. If ALPA officers worked for nothing, every pilot in the country would instantly get a 75% raise and their airlines would exit bankruptcy. Immunity from economic forces would quickly follow .

Got it!

Go ask Prater to take a 75% paycut and lets see how interested he is in the job.

Oh, I get it! You're just a whiner! For a while there I thought you had a point. Maybe you should send your message to the elected reps who set Prater's pay. I ain't one of 'em. If I was, I wouldn't have a probem with what he gets paid. I think it's a good idea to pay the people who work for us well. If you don't, then perhaps that might explain your attitude toward unions.

Don't hand me this BS about being a resource to protect pilot's careers. You've held the pilots hands on the way to the bottom. And you're still doing it! Go tell your story to the ex-Eastern pilots and the pilots who lost their pensions. I'm sure your impressive "facts" would fall on deaf ears.

You mean like that sucky contract ALPA just signed at FedEx? If any of what you posted were true...that couldn't happen.

But it did, eh?

People might listen to you if guys like Woerthless weren't getting over half a million a year in compensation.

Duane Woerth is getting a half-million? Wow! Can you prove that?

I'm sure he could really relate to a regional pilot's lifestyle while he was in a five star hotel! But, like any politician, you guys will scratch each others backs and defend your outrageous paychecks and your cushy schedules. The day you guys do the job for free is the day you'll get the attention of your members. That tip is on the house!

(sigh)

Are the RJDC lawyers your funding working for free?

As I said before...Comair would be very wise to form their own in-house Union with Comair's best interests in mind. You should have declared an emergency a long time ago, you've just run out of gas!

I hope you find peace.

If not, I hope your other sensations are excruciating.

 

[Regul8r]

Hey N2264J, thanks for the support. Up to today, I have not come across ONE ALPA pilot aside from the officers who support ALPA. This says quite a bit. I can say with the utmost confidence that the numbers of disgruntled ALPA "represented" pilots are growing by the day. Changes will take place and the RLA will be amended accordingly to the benefit of the pilots.

Now Occam...I know you meant to say...

I understand your point. If ALPA officers worked for nothing, it would be proof positive they truly do have the best interests of their fellow pilots in mind.Got it!

Oh, I get it! You're just a whiner! For a while there I thought you had a point. Maybe you should send your message to the elected reps who set Prater's pay. I ain't one of 'em. If I was, I wouldn't have a probem with what he gets paid. I think it's a good idea to pay the people who work for us well.

Yeah, I'm a whiner for the pilots. Here's a novel idea, why don't you have the pilots vote for your pay? I wonder what your smart-a$$ reply to that one will be...

You mean like that sucky contract ALPA just signed at FedEx?

Oh no no no no no! ALPA can't take credit for that! It's all the pilots faults! See, there you guys are ready to reap the glory when it's to be had but when pay cuts are dished out, ALPA points the middle finger at the pilots who approved it. Good....you're going to take the credit for FedEx...let's see you make it happen with KittyHawk and Omni. No excuses now, you guys made that contract FedEx contract happen using pure ALPA finesse!

Duane Woerth is getting a half-million? Wow! Can you prove that?

You must be the product of an inner city public school. I know your GED taught you well...re-read my post. What were those two words AFTER the word 'year' ??? Does compensation necessarily equate to pay??? Hmmmm...Better rub both of your IQ points together and try starting a fire to keep yourself warm. You might be here all night pondering this one. And yes, it can be proved very easily.

Nice try though chief...all I did was give you the shovel, you dug your grave.

 

[COOPERVANE]

My daddy can beat up your daddy!!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I realize tensions are running high. But I have a question. Will any of the recent events over the past 2 years (both internal, and outside the company) ever lead the CMR pilots to replace Lawson and Tinen and Baker on the MEC?

Has the past 2 years actually strengthened their hold on the MEC? I just dont understand why CMR pilots think its OK to have a guy sit in that office for 10 years straight. Would you be happy with Clinton OR Bush in office for that long??

Just wondering. Hate to see CMR going south at warp speed.

 

[Regul8r]

I just dont understand why CMR pilots think its OK to have a guy sit in that office for 10 years straight.

You thinking along the lines of a revolving door policy? 1...maybe 2 years max in office before you move on and bring fresh blood in? Sounds like a good idea.

 

[Speedtape]

I realize tensions are running high. But I have a question. Will any of the recent events over the past 2 years (both internal, and outside the company) ever lead the CMR pilots to replace Lawson and Tinen and Baker on the MEC?

Has the past 2 years actually strengthened their hold on the MEC? I just dont understand why CMR pilots think its OK to have a guy sit in that office for 10 years straight. Would you be happy with Clinton OR Bush in office for that long??

Just wondering. Hate to see CMR going south at warp speed.

Have you ever thought that there may be a steep learning curve and that having experience in those positions is a must, especially in recent times? The Comair Pilots, the Membership, decide who their leadership is and how long they will serve just like any other property in ALPA or any Union does!

The Comair Pilots are very engaged in their Union! In fact, their attendance at LEC meetings, even during non contract times, would probably put the rest of the pilot groups to shame. They are engaged, they volunteer and participate at all levels, and they are aware of what is going on with their leadership and their Union. They have had and probably will continue to have one of the most stable leadership corps and pilot groups within the association. If the Comair Pilots want a change, they know how to do it and would have! In short, Unionism is alive and well at Comair!

You have not walked in the shoes of a Comair Pilot nor their leadership! You have not faced the problems that they have faced over the last several years. Rest assured though, that other pilot groups, including XJET, have benefitted in the progress that they have made in the past. Rest assured, that they are the benchmark, and if you are at another similar carrier, you will be affected by recent developments, including SKYWEST!!!!

It's easy to armchair quarterback and criticize others. What have you done to make your carrier a better place for you, as well as any future pilots to work? I know the answer to that question! Luckily, others have, including the Comair Pilots!

Thanks for you indulgence, and now you can return to your cave!

A Non Comair Pilot, but a proud ALPA Member

 

[Lazy8]

So does anyone have some ballpark figures of the payscale a 2007 newhire would be looking at? Also, how's the upgrade times currently looking?

g

 

[mosyslack]

So does anyone have some ballpark figures of the payscale a 2007 newhire would be looking at? Also, how's the upgrade times currently looking?

g

IF the TA passes... $22/hour for year one, then jumps to $34-36 depending on which aircraft (50 or 70). I am a 4 year FO and still 100 numbers away if I wanted to go to JFK...I don't think so.