Comair Lowered the Bar???

[LegacyIIDriver]

I hear Comair took a 4.5% pay freeze annually for the next two years.

Is this an example of lowering the bar???

Just wondering...

*ducks*

 

[uncle]

No. The bar is stationary. This is the unfortunate result of too many other pilot groups taking concessions to their existing weak contracts in the hopes of getting all that PIC time and not going anywhere.

 

[flap operator]

Consessions? Who took concessions for growth? ACA and Air Wisc come to mind but are they GROWING? Nope. None of the contracts post 9/11 topped Comair, but they certianly WERE NOT concessionary.


FO

 

[FlyComAirJets]

OxyMORON Alert

I hear Comair took a 4.5% pay freeze annually for the next two years.

Is this an example of lowering the bar???

Just wondering...

*ducks*

Just what exactly does a "4.5% pay freeze" mean? A paycut of 4.5% perhaps? The answer is no -- no paycuts here. A future payscale freeze? Conditionally yes -- there will be a payfreezes in the future (this June), but some will still get a higher payrate if their seat status increases, they get off probation, and/or if they get off reserve.

Some think this is lowering the bar and that has generated much debate. With the exception of Horizon and Expressjet (work rules), the bar remains well above everyone else in this industry.

 

[flap operator]

Come on man... while Mesaba may not have achieved better pay than you - we still have many things in our contract that is better than yours. Remember it's not all about pay. 4 hr min day look fwd, training/testing and reserve rules come to mind that are better than yours. We can sit here and compare d!ck sizes all day... face it - every contract is different. Some are better than others in different areas. There is no ONE best contract out there. Get off your high horse and deal with your pay freezes for growth. I'm not casting stones, because you all at Comair have to do what you need to do to stay satisfied. But stop throwing your contract in the faces of everybody else post 9/11 who didn't better your pay.


FO

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Simma down, y'hear?

Flap Operator,

Nobody is throwing their contract in your face. The preoccupation with payscales as the sole determinate of its quality is flawed and you correctly pointed out why. It is a combination of pay plus work rules that give quality of life.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not defending this LOA but the people who did vote for it apparently felt it gives us a better future when we go independent. And quite frankly, I cannot explain why we so quickly jumped at this offer without fully considering the negative impact it will have on our ASA brothers and sisters.

As for Mesaba, would you say that your contract aggregately (payrates+work rules) has for better or worse better positioned your future?

 

[flap operator]

Since we're not growing, it's hard to tell. Our growth with NWA is completely controlled by their pilots, so our contract really has no bearing. Outside NWA, our contracts scope might have prevented growth with BigSky, but that could be a good thing. I don't see why we couldn't grow with our contract. It's not excessive and nothing earth shattering. Apparantly it was the best we could do, considering all the negative forces against us... which Comair and Exjet did not have. Mesa and Chautauqua had good old whipsaw. I still voted NO.


FO

 

[FlyComAirJets]

I think you have hit on the answer. The airline you (or anybody for that matter) work for has a Quality of Life directly proportional to its growth rate. The 60% FOR pilots at Comair must have believed that and voted accordingly.

Now, my question to you is, given the same choice, what would you have done if you absolutely believed the same thing?

Me, I would have waited for a better offer which would have included the ASA pilots. Now, we are going to be blamed for whatever their contract does or does not achieve. Sad.

 

[flap operator]

It's hard to tell what I would have done... if I were in your shoes. If I were content with my situation at Comair, I would have voted NO. But if I didn't want to be an FO forever or be on reserve forever or risk downsizing, I might have voted yes. Each pilot is an individual who will look out for themselves first and then the greater good of the pilot group.

If Mesaba mgmt and the MEC were to come to me to ask for concessions for growth, I'd have a few choice words for them. I'm sure something like that would create serious riots at XJ. After what we went through just to get what we've got, it'll take some serious balls to approach us for concessions. I'd have a hard time voting for it. I don't like stagnation but I also can't give up what I don't have. We're not the highest paid out there. Our contract isn't extravagant. It is ok given the circumstances that are given, plus the circumstances unique to Mesaba and the relationship it has with NWA.
We'll see. It's not my place to judge the actions of your pilot group. I just get so sick of hearing how Comair did everyone a favor pre 9/11 and all the pilots post 9/11 have stabbed them in the back. I'm sick of the holier than thou attitude many at Comair have. I'm also sick of people with their heads up their a$$ who cannot examine all the facets to a contract as well as the details surrounding their relationship with the mainline carrier as well as the threats made by them.


FO

 

[VABB]

A New Era

I don't think it's a lowering of the bar, but rathere the beginning of a new era in aviation history.

Remember PFT (Pay-For-Training)? Well, get ready for the next major leap in the airline industry.

It is called PFF, and it stands for Pay-For-Fleet.

Yep, before too long, people will be paying the airline to fly for them instead of the other way around.

One type of person you will never see in the cockpit of a Comair aircraft is anyone who has a degree in economics.

You know what I think you guys should do? Tell management they can shove the bigger airplanes. They want them worse than the pilot group, and personally I think they can afford them without a pay freeze.

I guess some people are just too jet-giddy to see the forest from the trees.

 

[patriotflier]

Well said Vabb!!!!

Now we really know why CMR mgmt was wanting a pay freeze so bad!

So they can sell the company off....Lotta good that did for generating growth and future opportunities.....Anyone looking to buy the brooklyn bridge, I will sell it to you.