Comair flight 5637, irate pax, watch the video

[CrewDawg]

Unfortunately the bus isn't that easy to get either. This happened at JFK last week....we returned to the gate because our route of flight was shut down due to T-storms. OF course when we got to the gate, Delta ramp said the port authority closed the ramp because of lightning in the area and nobody would be allowed to deplane. They wouldn't even send a bus out. Since it was hot and humid inside the cabin, we opened up the main cabin door and the emergency exits to cross ventilate the airplane. We sat there for an hour and a half. Then came a break in the weather and the lightning stopped but they still wouldn't let us deplane or send a customer service agent out to the plane. I eventually called the airport manager only to find out that they had not closed any ramp! The Delta ramp was lying to us. So that was when I TOLD the ramp controller that we will be deplaning the pax before the next round of weather came back and that's exactly what we did. We escorted the pax off the airplane and into the terminal with the help of all crew members.

I'm really glad the regional chief pilot backed me up on this one. Although I hear Delta isn't too happy about that. Oh well....

It is unfortunate that we had to take this extreme step but that is the only way to get things done on the Delta ramp at JFK. That place is a mess.

Watching that and seeing how I would have reacted lets me know I have a lot to learn. I would have lost my cool and probably been out a job. Maybe I should look into freight!

This reminds me of a story (one of many) a family friend, now retired airline pilot, told me when I decided to get into aviation. Back in ~ late 70's/early 80's when he was a FO he had a situation similar to this only they had just arrived and didn't have a gate. Long story short after sitting on the ramp forever the captain was still being denied a gate. He asked to unload the pax, just as you did, and was denied again. So the Captain took a walk back in the plane and came back up and got on the radio and told them if they didn't get them a gate ASAP they he was going to declare an emergency and perform an emergency ground egress. Suddenly, a gate opened up.

 

[TexFlyer]

Well I'm not going to Monday morning quarterback either. One thing for sure is we should thank this jackass for posting his video, because now we get the chance to think how we would handle this when the next situation occurs (tommorrow). Instead this Captain I think was caught off guard and handled the best he knew how at the time. Do you think he likes how this all went down? I bet he would do things different now that he has experienced this first hand. Like myself, I always think of all the good comebacks after the situation has passed. Now you what to expect on the interview questions, "Tmaatw you had some ass of a pax approach you and....."

 

[captainv]

Does anyone know what ever happened to this crew?

On the today show, Comair said the captain did everything in his power to help his passengers. So, I'm guessing they haven't been fired...

 

[172driver]

On the today show, Comair said the captain did everything in his power to help his passengers. So, I'm guessing they haven't been fired...

The question is, what did the company do to help the passengers?

 

[igneousy2]

Dude-
You obviously have never been on plane with an inop APU! Once you disconnect the ground air, it takes about two seconds for the inside to be over 110 degrees on a hot day.
Would you like your Grandma taxiing around at 110 or 120 or so for 35 mins to wait for takeoff? People can die from this sort of stuff.
You are the type of person who will one day get your butt sued off for killing an old, frail passenger this way. Don't think any airline is going to defend you from the civil suit which will follow. You will be lucky to be living in a "trailer down by the river" after that one. Way to take one for the team!
-Life's hard-it's harder when you're stupid!

Been there - done that. There should be no taxing around with the cabin at 110-120 in a jet. If I have an inop APU then I start running the packs off the huffer while they disconnect the A/C. I then start both engines at the gate with the huffer. This allows both packs to be operating during taxiing which should cool the plane back down to a reasonable temp fairly quickly. If the packs can't get the temp down below 110-120 then I would taxi back to the gate and write up the packs. The amount of time with no air is the same as if I had an APU because none of the APUs that I have operated to date can run the packs while starting the engines. There will always be some ammount of time with no A/C to the pax. I don't see how having an APU or not makes that much difference.

 

[SKYW Pilot]

You say that the company backs you up, yet if an incident ever happened something not related to this or even this situation, you wouldn't be protected.

Do you work at Skywest? Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

You are protected in a situation like this because it is a safety of flight issue! You're the PIC and it's your responsibility to protect the safety of your passengers both in the air and on the ground. Having no air conditioning during a hot humid summer time day is dangerous... period. I wouldn't want to work at a company that doesn't back you up in a situation like this.

 

[SKYW Pilot]

no, the captain would be hard pressed at just about any company. It would be pretty hard to justify an APU as a safety issue during any carpet dance - everyone here saying he should have done this or that is full of crap - I have never seen a Captain refuse an airplane because of an inop APU. I call BS to anyone who says that they would.

I've turned an aircraft down three times at Skywest because of no APU/air conditioning. Never heard a word about it.

 

[PCL_128]

If I have an inop APU then I start running the packs off the huffer while they disconnect the A/C.

They usually don't start the huffer until it's time to start the engines. In other words, sometimes they'll pull the a/c and then you'll sit there for 10-15 minutes while you wait for them to decide that they're ready to crank the engines. Besides, huffer air is usually horribly polluted and will make the pax sick rather quickly.

I then start both engines at the gate with the huffer.

I don't recall a CRJ checklist in our CFM that allowed for this. Maybe I'm just forgetting. Either way, it won't make a difference as I point out below.

This allows both packs to be operating during taxiing which should cool the plane back down to a reasonable temp fairly quickly. If the packs can't get the temp down below 110-120 then I would taxi back to the gate and write up the packs.

Have you ever flown a CRJ-200? It takes a minimum of 45% N1 on both engines to keep the PACKs running with sufficient pressure to even begin to cool the airplane. You need about 55% N1 to provide the same amount of cooling power as the APU provides. The engines on the CRJ provide very little bleed air at low power settings. Besides, you keep mentioning "below 110 degrees" as if that's an acceptable temperature. I would never subject my passengers to that sort of heat for any length of time. Anything over 85 or 90 in that little cramped up CRJ tube is unbearable for more than a few minutes.

 

[igneousy2]

They usually don't start the huffer until it's time to start the engines. In other words, sometimes they'll pull the a/c and then you'll sit there for 10-15 minutes while you wait for them to decide that they're ready to crank the engines. Besides, huffer air is usually horribly polluted and will make the pax sick rather quickly.



I don't recall a CRJ checklist in our CFM that allowed for this. Maybe I'm just forgetting. Either way, it won't make a difference as I point out below.



Have you ever flown a CRJ-200? It takes a minimum of 45% N1 on both engines to keep the PACKs running with sufficient pressure to even begin to cool the airplane. You need about 55% N1 to provide the same amount of cooling power as the APU provides. The engines on the CRJ provide very little bleed air at low power settings. Besides, you keep mentioning "below 110 degrees" as if that's an acceptable temperature. I would never subject my passengers to that sort of heat for any length of time. Anything over 85 or 90 in that little cramped up CRJ tube is unbearable for more than a few minutes.

I didn't bring up 110 degrees...someone else did.

Anyway...This horse is dead as far as I'm concerned.

Later