Comair FAs shoot and score..

[chperplt]

The pilots wouldn't sell out their young, but I guess the FAs didn't have that problem.

Looks to me like they are getting a lot of crap in exchange for adding 1 year and leaving their young for slaughter.


TO: Comair Flight Attendants
FROM: Joel Kuplack, Vice President, Inflight Services
Victoria Gray, International Representative, Airline Division, International Brother of Teamsters
Re: International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Comair Reach Tentative Agreement
Comair flight attendants will have the opportunity to review and vote on a proposed Letter of Agreement reached after weeks of discussions between the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) Local 513 and Comair. The proposed agreement would modify the flight attendant working agreement and help the airline achieve cost reductions, protect job security and bid for growth aircraft. It also addresses a number of quality-of-life issues that are important to flight attendants. IBT will conduct meetings on Tuesday March 22, Thursday March 24, and Monday March 28, at the Radisson Hotel at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Airport, between 9 a.m. - noon and 1 - 4 p. m. During these meetings, flight attendants will have an opportunity to review all of the proposed agreement's details.

Some key elements of the proposed agreement include:

• No pay reduction for current flight attendants. Flight attendants hired before June 1, 2005 will remain on the current pay scales in accordance with the contract;
• Reduced New Hire Pay Scale - All flight attendants hired on or after June 1, 2005 through July 19, 2010 will be paid in accordance with a "New Hire Growth Scale" (a reduction from today's wage scale). Flight attendants employed prior to June 1, 2005 will not be affected by this scale;
• A one-year extension to the current working agreement;
• Performance Pay Program - All Flight Attendants will participate in the Comair Performance Pay Program effective June 1, 2005;
• Guaranteed timeframe for the delivery of the 35 growth aircraft. Per the letter of agreement, should the company fail to execute these deliveries then the New Hire Growth Scale shall cease immediately;
• New Hire Training Pay - Flight Attendants who start initial training on or after June 1, 2005 will be paid while in training;
• The Company will guarantee appropriate staffing levels to ensure more schedule flexibility for flight attendants (SAW and operational drops); additional trade, add and drop flexibility;
• Commuter Protections
• Vacation block posting and trading for reserves as well as Line Holders;
• And other "lifestyle" issues

Our focus throughout this process was finding a balanced approach to address the challenging issues we face together. This includes addressing the Company goal of cost reduction, while preserving the current Comair Flight Attendant leading pay and simultaneously addressing a number of other quality-of-life issues important to flight attendants.

Both negotiating teams would like to thank the flight attendants for their patience throughout this process. Balloting information will be mailed to each flight attendant. Be sure your address is up to date with both the Company and the Union and that you are a Member in Good Standing to be eligible to vote. Those of you who participate in the voting process will determine the outcome of this Tentative Agreement. Be sure to have your voice heard.

 

[Bako Cap]

I don't get it.

Why is it that pilot's and now flight attendants seem to think that they purchase aircraft? I believe that an order of 35 new aircraft is a $875M-$1.2B deal, so I guess the chup change the flight crews gave to the company will pay for those in what 90-100 years (if financed to buy).

I'm not knocking Comair, just regional flight crews in general. If we at SkyWest would have just done some of this simple math 21 months ago you folks wouldn't be in this position. I can understand FO's folding beacuse they still believe in that almighty 1000 hours PIC Turbine and can only get it through upgrading, but I don't understand flight attendants folding. They don't get much of anything out of the deal. Let alone their pay really sucks to start with in the first place.

Simple: We don't make enough money to give back anything significant to the company, let alone buy aircraft.

 

[chperplt]

It doesn't look like the FAs folded to me.. They haven't even voted yet. Although, It looks like they got a lot of good stuff to f-ck over furture FAs.

 

[RJFlyer]

If we at SkyWest would have just done some of this simple math 21 months ago you folks wouldn't be in this position. I can understand FO's folding beacuse they still believe in that almighty 1000 hours PIC Turbine and can only get it through upgrading...

Skywest'ers don't have any room to talk. You guys have the same pay scale for 50-100 seats. When you "agreed" to this 2 years ago, I asked a few Skywest crewmembers about it. I was told it was "only for 18 months." What happened to that?

 

[cl65capt]

Return of the B scale

Wow, a B scale for fa's. Robert Crandall would be proud.

 

[Bluto]

Chpr and RJ, I think you guys both missed the entire point of his post. He was saying that SkyWest made a mistake when they voted for the TA 21 months ago. And that if they had learned that it wasn't their job to buy airplanes then you wouldn't be in the position you were in. Kind of pathetic for you guys to attack him when he's taking responsibility (not that I think he should) for your tough times. You guys are so primed to defend yourselves you have no idea who's even on your side.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Aren't you guys flying 70 seaters for 50 seat wages?

Did you read the part where he said "I'm not knocking Comair, just regional crews in general"? WTF was the point of that comeback? He was even knocking his own company for crying out loud...

 

[jarhead]

Aren't you guys flying 70 seaters for 50 seat wages?

It doesn't look like the FAs folded to me.. They haven't even voted yet. Although, It looks like they got a lot of good stuff to f-ck over furture FAs.

"Future" F/A's don't even work for Comair. If they choose to accept employment at whatever wage the company pays, then that is their choice. If more F/A's are needed than the wage will attract, it would need to be addressed. If there is a "shortage" of applicant's, the company would need to offer a "signing bonus", or cut back on operations. I don't believe any company or union needs to worry about people not employed by any company, or not yet represented by any union. How far back should a group protect the future wage of a flight attendant? From birth? From Kindergarten or grade school age?

 

[Crizz]

Chpr and RJ, I think you guys both missed the entire point of his post. He was saying that SkyWest made a mistake when they voted for the TA 21 months ago. And that if they had learned that it wasn't their job to buy airplanes then you wouldn't be in the position you were in. Kind of pathetic for you guys to attack him when he's taking responsibility (not that I think he should) for your tough times. You guys are so primed to defend yourselves you have no idea who's even on your side.

Dam good post... kinda sums up alot of the pissing matches on this site

 

[HughBeamont]

Wow, a B scale for fa's. Robert Crandall would be proud.

You hit the nail on the head. This is pathetic. B-scaling of ANYTHING should be simply off the table in any union negotiations. Management succeeds in permanently dividing a labor group.

On a related note, kudos to NetJets pilots for recently rejecting a contract that had B-scale provisions - mandatory collection centers.

 

[chperplt]

Bluto

You're right.. I did miss that part. My apologies.

 

[bobbyice]

Skywest'ers don't have any room to talk. You guys have the same pay scale for 50-100 seats. When you "agreed" to this 2 years ago, I asked a few Skywest crewmembers about it. I was told it was "only for 18 months." What happened to that?

Hey jerk - why don't you actually read his post before giving your canned response.

 

[chperplt]

Future" F/A's don't even work for Comair. If they choose to accept employment at whatever wage the company pays, then that is their choice.

I can't disagree with you more. You don't separate a group and expect the group to work together very well.

Ask your son about the quality of our current FAs. Do you think this is going to bring in quality applicants?

The company needs to do what's best for the company now to position them for 10 years into the future. Isn't that what Fred said? This does nothing to set the company for future success.

If more F/A's are needed than the wage will attract, it would need to be addressed.

Yea.. I bet it will be.. and sooner than later.

 

[jarhead]

I can't disagree with you more. You don't separate a group and expect the group to work together very well.

Ask your son about the quality of our current FAs. Do you think this is going to bring in quality applicants?

The company needs to do what's best for the company now to position them for 10 years into the future. Isn't that what Fred said? This does nothing to set the company for future success.



Yea.. I bet it will be.. and sooner than later.

Upon furher review.........I recind my original position. You are correct, and I stand corrected.

 

[172driver]

Ask your son about the quality of our current FAs. Do you think this is going to bring in quality applicants?

Depends what kind of quality you're looking for. Maybe this will discourage some of the older types and attract some nineteen year olds looking for fun. Now that's quality!

 

[Bako Cap]

Hey guys,

I meant no harm with my post. I'm just saying the we are paid so low in the first place, ANY give-back just don't add up for buying new aircraft..

 

[chperplt]

I misread your post initially.. I didn't mean to sound like an ass.

We all do need to stick together!!

 

[Ultra Grump]

.....

 

[bvt1151]

Exactly why was "B-scales" such a disaster at American?

 

[cl65capt]

Exactly why was "B-scales" such a disaster at American?

Are you implying the a B scale is a good thing anywhere? Read the book Hard Landings by Thomas Petzinger.

 

[Flyforyou]

Yep, my wife is a Comair FA and was asking about this "B scale" thing. I pulled that book right out, had her read about it in there; she clearly understands it now. Can you say, we have a big NO vote here! The only thing good that can be said about it in this case is that it goes away in five years. Come to think of it, that still sucks! Fly safe.


Fly

 

[BigHangar]

Chpr and RJ, I think you guys both missed the entire point of his post. He was saying that SkyWest made a mistake when they voted for the TA 21 months ago. And that if they had learned that it wasn't their job to buy airplanes then you wouldn't be in the position you were in. Kind of pathetic for you guys to attack him when he's taking responsibility (not that I think he should) for your tough times. You guys are so primed to defend yourselves you have no idea who's even on your side.

Please please please will everyone stop saying "when skywest voted for this", or "when they approved that". The poor guy can't even take responsibility for the crap that happened at skywest 2 years ago because management over there can just tell all the pilots (bitches) the way it is going to be, and they're going to like it.

No seriously though, no pilot at skywest votes on or approves anything that management cannot just scoff at. In fact, when we're talking about unionized carriers like comair, skywest shouldn't even be brought up in the conversation. They are two totally different beasts.

Flame away skywest boys.

 

[Bako Cap]

I'll bite

I understand your non-union point and hopefully sometime in April or May that will change. But, sadly you don't know anything about SkyWest and the working arrangement with management. It worked very good for about 30 years, but unfortunately our trust has been violated one too many times in the last 3 years.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

You have made it clear that you know little to nothing about SkyWest and it's past.

 

[bvt1151]

Are you implying the a B scale is a good thing anywhere? Read the book Hard Landings by Thomas Petzinger.

Read the book twice, and no, I'm not implying anything. I just haven't heard any good reasons yet...including the book.

 

[Slim]

As a former AA F/A, I believe I can answer why B-scale was so bad. It wasn't just at AA.

First, B-scalers (pilots and F/As)earned less but had to pay the same D2 sevice charges on their pass travel. At the time B-scale was implemented, AA employees paid a distance-based service charge on all their pass travel. With less disposable income than their A-scale co-workers, the service charges took more out of their paychecks. This was especially hard for commuters.

When medical insurance premiums were passed on to AA employees, again, the B-scalers had a larger percentage of their income deducted from their paychecks.

When the APA signed the first B-scale CBA, there were hundreds of furloughed AA pilots. They were returned to work with A-scale benefits,but at pay rates lower than the A-scale they were originally hired under but above the new B-scale. One friend called it the B+ scale.

Another friend, a B-scaler at UAL, was on a trip which was running up against their contract duty limit. His captain and F/O were willing to waive the duty limit to return to base (ORD). As the F/E, he refused and the flight cancelled in ORF. I went through officer training with him and believe his story. I know him well enough to know he had no hesitation saying NO!

Fly safe!

 

[bvt1151]

The only valid argument I'm hearing is that the B-scaled guys made less than the A-scalers. This shouldn't be a suprise to anyone.

Doesn't somebody have some "lowering the bar" argument (which I wouldn't consider completely valid anyways)?