Comair commuter policy

[Obi-Wan]

What is comairs commuter policy?
Thanks

 

[ACE]

here, look it up yourself and anything else you want to know.....
http://www.airlinepilotcontracts.com/Contracts/Comair2001.pdf

 

[dtzl]

Using the link to the ComAir contract, I looked up their compensation. It would take a FO more than 2 years of service on the 50 seater to make more than I used to as............a bartender in the CVG airport!

My God!

 

[jarhead]

dtzl

I guess the secret then, is to work at Comair for more than two years......right? Once you can upgrade, life gets very nice in CVG. But.....what the he!! does your response have to do with the question posed by the starter of the thread? I suspect he/she wants to know how comuting to CVG will work for him/her, should he/she get hired by Comair.....right? Stay in your bartender job in Cincinnati if you're so enamoured with that life. My son is a Comair captain, fairly high on the seniority list, and he is doing VERY nicely, thank you! (and he earns WAY more than you do as a bartender, even if you count your tips).

 

[ArcherB]

Jarhead,

As an aspiring airline pilot your comments are encourageing, it is needed sometimes. Thanks.

 

[dtzl]

Jarhead,

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you or your son. Just making conversation. Haven't you ever been part of a conversation where idiots like me change course and go off on a tangent? It's pretty common in the bartending profession.

Seriously, I was just bringing up the point that as pilots, we pay our dues. I was actually defending the profession. If a young kid asked me about becoming a pilot, I would tell the good, the bad and the ugly. Seeing so many Comair pilots making less than an airport bartender is definitely the ugly. Not blaming anybody, and not blaming your son, just pointing out something. Now, would you like that shaken or stirred?

dtzl

 

[skiddriver]

To answer the question;

You have to designate your origination airport, and register as a commuter with the Chief Pilot's office. When commuting to work, you have to list to arrive at your domicile on at least two flights which depart at least 1 hour apart, the second of which arrives at your domicile at least 30 minutes prior to your report time.

This month, my continuous duty line reports at 2050 on the first day of each cycle (the day I commute in). I list on the 1450 Delta direct out of New Orleans. If I get bumped off that flight, I still have the 1650 Comair direct, which arrives around 2005. I've met the two flight/30 minute prior requirement, and am protected by our contract. The contract is mute on whether a non-Delta/DCI flight counts, but conventional wisdom says it does.

If you meet these requirements and don't get on either flight, you get docked your pay for what you miss (reserve - minute for minute; line - ?) but you don't get fired.

I've used it once in my year at Comair. Lost the pay but no one batted an eye.

I assume that continuous absences caused by your commuting from Honolulu or London, UK would probably result in some company action, but I find it is a workable policy.

 

[Northern Lights]

Thanks skiddriver, good info!

Anyone know about other regionals with commuter policies? I think that ACA and Horizon have them, and was wondering about any others.

It would be great if all airlines could embrace a similar policy/attitude towards commuters. I'm sure that we'd see a lot less sick time being used when a flight is missed due to commuting!

 

[ifly4food]

Is the commuter policy really that useful? It seems to me you're going to get that first flight most of the time and spend a lot of time in the crew lounge.

It wouldn't help a pilot like me who takes the last flight in prior to sign in if it looks good. It also wouldn't help pilots who don't have a lot of flights from home to work.

If you still lose pay for the trip, why not just call in sick that one or two times a year the commute doesn't work out?

 

[V-1]

Just what exactly does a second-year bartender make at the CVG airport? How about a fifteenth-year bartender? How much does the bartender's employer contribute to their retirement plan? My wife and I have traveled using company benefits, calculating conservatively, worth over $8,000 year-to-date.

It's not difficult right now for a second-year Comair F.O. to earn close to the taxable equivalent of $50k/year, while still enjoying 12-14 days off per month.

Calculating income based on the compensation section of a contract is difficult, and inaccurate.

I don't have to hang around cigarette-smoking drunks at work all day, either.

 

[George Jetson]

It's not difficult right now for a second-year Comair F.O. to earn close to the taxable equivalent of $50k/year, while still enjoying 12-14 days off per month.

Comair's 2nd year pay rate for the CRJ50 is $35.75/hour. How can one come close to $50k on that rate? Per diem doesn't count in my opinion. Thanks.

GJ

 

[wil]

ifly4food- good question. Let's say you are commuting into DFW. The plane your on goes missed and you go to Amarillo for fuel and wait till the wx picks up, or diverts enroute due to a maintenance issue. Totally out of your control but your probably going to miss your first trip leg at least. If you sick out there is a record of your flight. Also, if you sick out a reserve pilot has to pick up the whole trip. With a call in honest policy a reserve could come out fly the first round trip and then you could finish your trip and the reserve pilot returns to back up other flights. In the long run it will cost the company less.

 

[wil]

George- Comair has a good trip/duty policy. You can't just multiply hours flown by rate to figure out pay at Comair. You can at ASA but hopefully this too will change!!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

George, to expand on how you make $ at Comair:

They have a trip and duty rig (like Air WI does, and all, I believe, of the major airlines).

In your monthly schedule, you have X number of flight hours (Comair may have a min guarantee, I'm not sure).

You are assigned a 3 day trip, with 18 hours of flying.
You have a Trip Rig, which is a formula that pays you X hours of flight pay for X hours you are away from your home station. Your Trip Rig hours for that trip could be higher than the actual flight hours, especially if there are some leg cancellations.

Let's say on day 2 of that trip you are scheduled for X hours of flight pay.
You have a Duty Rig, which is a formula that pays you X hours of flight pay for X hours that you are on duty that day. So, if U take a long weather delay that day, for example, you will have a higher daily guarantee from the Duty Rig pay than you made in your actual flight pay.

At the end of the month, the company will look at your actual flight hours, your Trip Rig hours, and your Duty Rig hours. You get paid the highest of the 3 options.

At Air WI, I read a post where the guy was getting paid for about 90 hours of flying, while actually only flying about 50 hours a month. That is due to the Trip and Duty rig.

I also read that one pilot at ATA was THE highest paid pilot in the U.S. a couple of years back (he was getting credit for something like 250 flight hours/month). They changed their contract so there's a max monthly hourly credit, something like 120 hours/month.

When I was at TSA, a mid-level pay regional (lower pay than Comair, AWAC, Horizon, etc.) the 1st year FOs took home about $25K. There's a large difference in pay between Midwest Connection (Skyway), Great Lakes, Corporate Airlines, etc. and AWAC, Comair, etc.

AWAC and Comair are the only 2 regionals I know of with 100% company funded retirement plans IN ADDITION to the standard 401K, which is one of the reasons why I would consider going there from my airline (we have no company funded plan, and there is not stock).

Cliff
DTW

 

[Tim47SIP]

Sure wish it was at ASA!

It would sure help if we had that kind of policy. The only two times that I have called in sick in a three year period (not because of a commute), I was called a liar. After 20 years in the mil and never once was accused of lying, I found this a little concerning. With a policy like this, commuting would be almost a non event. Anyone at ASA know if we are trying to get this in our contract. I know I put it down on the survey we did a couple of years ago. Thanks!

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Sure wish it was at ASA!

The only two times that I have called in sick in a three year period (not because of a commute), I was called a liar.

It's less hassle to just fly sick. Trust me.

 

[George Jetson]

Hi!

George, to expand on how you make $ at Comair:

They have a trip and duty rig (like Air WI does, and all, I believe, of the major airlines).

...

AWAC and Comair are the only 2 regionals I know of with 100% company funded retirement plans IN ADDITION to the standard 401K, which is one of the reasons why I would consider going there from my airline (we have no company funded plan, and there is not stock).

Cliff
DTW

Cliff,

I'm well aware of the Trip/Duty rig setup at both Comair (not a true daily rig..it is a monthly lookback) as well as the daily rigs at ARW. My question still holds. How does one make close to $50k per year as a 2nd year FO? That would mean he would have to credit 1400 hours of pay for the year. And I highly doubt that Comair's trip pairings are so inefficient that the rig kicks in that much. Furthermore, a pilot can only fly 1000 hours obviously, which equates to 83.3 hours of flying per month. Furthermore, I'm also aware of training and vacation pay, but that still makes reaching 1400 hours of credit very difficult. If I'm missing something, let me know.

As to 100% company funded retirement plan, ARW has a 4% B Plan (money purchase pension plan) and CMR has a 2% B Plan for 0-4 years of service, 4% for 5-9 years, 6% for 10-14, etc. These are not terrible numbers (when combined with 401k match's, etc) but they do NOT and should NOT be considered stand alone retirement plans since they do not provide for the standard 75% of IRR (income replacement ratio) at age 60. Just had to clarify the point you tried to make.

GJ

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Thanks for the detailed info on their retirement plans. I know that they have those plans and a 401K (we just have a crappy 401K).

Also, you're right in the pay hours-I wouldn't think that typical AWAC/Comair pilots can get more than 100 hours of credit/month

I would prefer to fly for UAL, DAL, etc., but I'd settle for Comair/Air WI if I can't make it to a "Big" airline. They are better than where I'm at now.

Cliff
DTW

 

[V-1]

George,

If you'll reread my post you'll see I used the phrase "taxable equivalent" in conjunction with the annual income. That includes the 90% of per diem I receive that's not blown during overnights. That per diem is worth around $6000 per year tax-free, or the equivalent of about $8k if it were taxable income.

I also mentioned 12-14 days off per month, which is one or two less than most current F.O.'s in their second year are getting at this time. Those two days can be used to pick up extra flying at 1 1/2 times normal pay, extra trips other F.O.'s want to drop, or work as a non-flying pilot in the training department, which is worth 5 hours' pay without adding one hour towards the 1000 hour yearly limit.

Trip segments are paid the greater of scheduled or actual block time. It is rare to have a trip worth 10 hours pay less than 11, with delays (remember, we're operating in ATL now), though the actual block time flown may be less than 10 hours.

Displacements are paid at 100% of the scheduled block time. If I'm removed from a trip for any reason not created by me, I'm paid...also without adding any time in my logbook.

It's not difficult for someone who's willing to work hard to earn over 100 credit hours per month without violating flight limits.

When someone learns how to work the system, it's quite possible to earn the "taxable equivalent" of close to $50k/year. In my opinion, "taxable equivalent" is no different than "pre-tax income". Take home is the same.

The intent of my post was to point out that pay and benefits at a dead-end job don't equate to pay and benefits in a professional career over the long-term.

Regards

 

[George Jetson]

V1,

I saw the taxable equivalent and I had a feeling you were using per diem because of that line. My point was that I don't factor in per diem because neither does the mortgage lender or bank if they are doing a credit check on me. Frankly, the fact that those of us flying small jets have to use per diem as a supplement to our W-2 is a pathetic reminder that small jet pilots still cannot support a family adequately on simply their minimum pay guarantee alone. We resort to picking up open time, working the system, adding in per diem, etc. I should be able to raise a family and afford a decent quality of life on 75 hours per month. Period. I imagine that you agree but I just wanted to hop on the soap box for a minute or 3.

GJ

 

[surplus1]

You've heard it before.....

During a pre-contract negotiations briefing of pilots, the chief negotiator mentioned that they had finally reached a TA with the Company on scheduling rules. Smiling and obviously proud, he went on to say that the new contract would require pilots to "fly only on Wednesdays."

Immediately he noticed a hand go up at the back of the room. A young pilot rose with a frown on his brow and irately asked, "Do you mean you agreed we have to fly every Wednesday? What kind of a lousy deal is that?"

Footnote: Some say it happened at United. Others claim it was USAirways. Still others think it was Delta. Everyone knows it wasn't SWA.

Over at little Comair, most employees have guessed that those SWA folks just might have a good thing going. It is rumored that Comair pilots have even figured out that their airline is a business and profits in the bank equate to steady paychecks, promotions and growth. Expectations are high, but most are happy, even though we don't get to fly "only on Wednesdays", don't have a bankrupt "A" plan, our rigs are only a look back, we have a useless (to others) commuter policy (in the contract), we don't operate whales, and they won't serve us in the ATL club.

We're not really worried though because any day now we all expect "the call" ... from America West

Remember, it's all only a rumor.

 

[PositiveRate]

Frankly, the fact that those of us flying small jets have to use per diem as a supplement to our W-2 is a pathetic reminder that small jet pilots still cannot support a family adequately on simply their minimum pay guarantee alone. We resort to picking up open time, working the system, adding in per diem, etc. I should be able to raise a family and afford a decent quality of life on 75 hours per month. Period.

Amen Brother...Amen!

 

[jetflyer]

PAY

Paychecks aren't bad second year. I'm pretty happy here.

EVEN AFTER:
taking out 15% for 401(k) and
taking out union dues
medical, dental, life, and $50 a month I'm having deducted for uniform stuff I bought in the flight station like my leather jacket, new shoes, shirts, etc.

I'm getting about 2700 a month in pay. Oh and SORRY, yes this counts per diem I've been getting about 90 hours a month.

Last month I only flew 80 but got paid for 92. I was displaced and picked up some time here and there per leg. I made 30 extra mins in one leg sitting on the ramp in ATL waiting to be parked! Sorry i just hate that place.

But I'm happy, because for the first time in my life I can pay the bills. When I make captain pay I'm probably gonna feel like a millionaire. Can't wait. And If the Delta MEC and General Lee ever forgive us maybe I can one day feel like a billionaire at Delta Ok that's proably wishful thinking!

Jet