Comair/ASA guys...check it out

[FL990]

I don't know what DB said, but I do still have my notes from Skip's last state of the company meeting. As of Sept. '03 here is the breakdown on Delta flying:

45% DAL
20% CMR
17% ASA
10% SKYW
4% ACA
4% CHQ

ASA and CMR were already at 37% of Delta flying over a year ago. So as you can see, 25% of Delta flying is not a gain for us as we already do considerably more than that.

These numbers are refering to the number of flights operated and not block hours. Because the average delta flight is much greater than the average ASA/Comair flight, the two are not equal...while ASA/Comair combine for 37% of the flights (in number) the percentage in block hours is much much less. When i asked, I too was given a number that was very low..(about 6% was the # I got for ASA)

Also, here is a quote from the TA....: 25% of flying of all of Delta Air Lines Inc. flying must be accomplished by ASA and Comair as long as both are wholly owned affiliates...so that should help clear up the original question...in short, if the TA passes, it will help protect growth at ASA/Comair as well as stimulate growth. That is not to say that Chakaka and SKW wont get some of the pie too, but they aren't protected...in other words, if Delta goes above the 50%, ASA/Comair cannot be reduced below 25%, CHQ and Skywest would have to be reduced.

 

[michael707767]

Also, here is a quote from the TA....: 25% of flying of all of Delta Air Lines Inc. flying must be accomplished by ASA and Comair as long as both are wholly owned affiliates...so that should help clear up the original question...in short, if the TA passes, it will help protect growth at ASA/Comair as well as stimulate growth. That is not to say that Chakaka and SKW wont get some of the pie too, but they aren't protected...in other words, if Delta goes above the 50%, ASA/Comair cannot be reduced below 25%, CHQ and Skywest would have to be reduced.

As long as both are wholly owned affiliates. Hmmm, wonder why they put that in there? My guess is that sentence comes into play within a year.

 

[InclusiveScope]

These numbers are refering to the number of flights operated and not block hours. Because the average delta flight is much greater than the average ASA/Comair flight, the two are not equal...while ASA/Comair combine for 37% of the flights (in number) the percentage in block hours is much much less. When i asked, I too was given a number that was very low..(about 6% was the # I got for ASA)

Also, here is a quote from the TA....: 25% of flying of all of Delta Air Lines Inc. flying must be accomplished by ASA and Comair as long as both are wholly owned affiliates...so that should help clear up the original question...in short, if the TA passes, it will help protect growth at ASA/Comair as well as stimulate growth. That is not to say that Chakaka and SKW wont get some of the pie too, but they aren't protected...in other words, if Delta goes above the 50%, ASA/Comair cannot be reduced below 25%, CHQ and Skywest would have to be reduced.

Something doesn't add up. If ASA and CMR are well below 25% currently, and the TA requires that 25% of the flying be done by ASA and CMR, what happens when this TA goes into effect? Wouldn't Delta be in violation of the contract?

 

[~~~^~~~]

As long as both are wholly owned affiliates. Hmmm, wonder why they put that in there? My guess is that sentence comes into play within a year.

My understanding is that Comair and ASA stock was fully owned by Delta. They used these assets to secure financing with GE Capital and other creditors. Since we are collateral for a loan, I do not know that selling ASA and Comair would net that much money for Delta.

Of course it could be done and perhaps by setting a 25% floor Delta could convince buyers that ASA and Comair have value in the market. However, with 82% of ASA's passengers feeding Delta flights and with all the shared infrastructure most investors would surely see, as we all do, that Delta's fate and ASA's fate is linked.

Indy air does not look like a business model that anyone will want to follow in the near term. In fact, I'm beginning to have my doubts about Branson jumping into the US market. There just is not any money to be made until at least two majors fail and fuel prices come down.

 

[FL990]

As long as both are wholly owned affiliates. Hmmm, wonder why they put that in there? My guess is that sentence comes into play within a year.

Michael,

I highly doubt that they will sell ASA or Comair. Companies tend to sell NON-profitable assets to generate cash when in financial troubles. It would be counter productive to sell either of these companies when they have yet to produce a loss since being owned by delta. I never say never, of course, but I would be very surprised if they did that.

 

[michael707767]

I highly doubt that they will sell ASA or Comair. Companies tend to sell NON-profitable assets to generate cash when in financial troubles. It would be counter productive to sell either of these companies when they have yet to produce a loss since being owned by delta.

I would agree with you except for two things. First, debt is what's killing Delta. Last I heard, of the 21 bil in debt Delta has, about 7 bil of it belongs to ASA and CMR. They could lower their debt right away by selling you guys. Second, from what I heard, CALX is profitable too, yet CAL sold them off (via an IPO). I think Delta will do the same thing.

 

[e120pilot]

michael,

Who's going to buy ASA or Comair? I highly doubt any airline or private investor would be willing to buy a company with very little growth potential that's tied to a struggling mainline. The only other option would be an IPO. Why would anyone invest in us? Express Jet was a whole different ball game. They went public with a bunch of RJ's on order and were the exclusive RJ provider until 2007 for CAL. I don't disagree that it would be in Delta's best interests to sell ASA and/or CMR, but I just don't think they're going to find anyone interested right now. That's probably why they're hanging on to us.

 

[michael707767]

michael,

Who's going to buy ASA or Comair? I highly doubt any airline or private investor would be willing to buy a company with very little growth potential that's tied to a struggling mainline. The only other option would be an IPO. Why would anyone invest in us? Express Jet was a whole different ball game. They went public with a bunch of RJ's on order and were the exclusive RJ provider until 2007 for CAL. I don't disagree that it would be in Delta's best interests to sell ASA and/or CMR, but I just don't think they're going to find anyone interested right now. That's probably why they're hanging on to us.

I think they will do the exact same thing CAL did with Xjet. An IPO. As to why would anyone invest, who knows? I was shocked anyone invested in Xjet, but they did.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

It wouldn't be a bad thing. Then maybe someone will be accountable for our lousy performance numbers. Absolute LAST in baggage handling errors, and when they get a wake-up call when the new ACARS start reporting OOOI times, boy are they in for a dissapointment. That'll last about a day, and they'll say "why do we have a 40% on-time all of a sudden? Must be the pilots fault. No contract for them!"

 

[FL990]

It wouldn't be a bad thing. Then maybe someone will be accountable for our lousy performance numbers. Absolute LAST in baggage handling errors, and when they get a wake-up call when the new ACARS start reporting OOOI times, boy are they in for a dissapointment. That'll last about a day, and they'll say "why do we have a 40% on-time all of a sudden? Must be the pilots fault. No contract for them!"

So you are saying that only 40% of our flights arive within 15 minutes of scheduled arrival times...because anything inside that 15 minute window is considered ontime. If that is true for you, then maybe YOU need to speed things up, because my flights vary rarely get in outside that 15 minute window and I don't have to fudge the times to make them do so...of course i do most of my flying in Dallas and I am aware that Atlanta has problems...but when the schedule out there is de-peaked, it should help out tremendously.

 

[wms]

No one would by a spun-off ASA/CA only to have all their flying shift to another carrier when they don't walk lock-step with DAL.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Yeah, well. That 15 minutes isn't meant for gate miscounts, late boarding, no fuel, no rampers, no release, no catering, no lav service, no cleaning. But you'll firgure out what all that means when you arrive in Atlanta. What I'm saying is that hopefully ACARS will give the crews ability to input delay codes, and the true reason that our flights don't leave the gate when they're scheduled to. Have you ever flown with a real airline, and watched them make haste to close the door by departure time? I'm not saying they don't have delays, but it seems our flight crews are the only ones making a real effort here. We can sit around for 15 minutes figuring out our problems, but that's not what customers want.

 

[FL990]

Yeah, well. That 15 minutes isn't meant for gate miscounts, late boarding, no fuel, no rampers, no release, no catering, no lav service, no cleaning. But you'll firgure out what all that means when you arrive in Atlanta. What I'm saying is that hopefully ACARS will give the crews ability to input delay codes, and the true reason that our flights don't leave the gate when they're scheduled to. Have you ever flown with a real airline, and watched them make haste to close the door by departure time? I'm not saying they don't have delays, but it seems our flight crews are the only ones making a real effort here. We can sit around for 15 minutes figuring out our problems, but that's not what customers want.

OK, i understand what you mean about the ACARS...i do agree that it would be nice to be able to place blame when its not our fault that the flight is delayed...and my minimal experience in ATL has afforded me the opportunity to taste what you mean when you talk about the rampers, fuelers, catering...etc. I aggree 100%, we need to be able to specify...

NOW, as for the REAL airline thing....what exactly do you call a real airline, and what real airline, if not ASA, have you worked for? Because I have a feeling that you have never worked for one of these so-called real airlines and furthermore, that the definition you use would exclude about 95% of the airlines in the world.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

NOW, as for the REAL airline thing....what exactly do you call a real airline, and what real airline, if not ASA, have you worked for? Because I have a feeling that you have never worked for one of these so-called real airlines and furthermore, that the definition you use would exclude about 95% of the airlines in the world.

What I meant was, have you ever been a passenger on a real airline. When you're flying on a mainline flight next time, watch how the door is closed on time. Not always, but I've been commuting a looooonnng time, and I can say that they have their act together. Why? Accountablility. Or take CVG for instance. Have you operated out of the C terminal before? I can remember one time we were like 2 minutes behind schedule, we hadn't closed the door and the gate agent came running out, "why haven't you left yet!?" "Well, we're still waiting on our release from Atlanta."

Don't be too quick defending your employer, they are making a huge effort to stall these contract negotiaions. Check out the MEC website to keep track of how our "gifts" are coming along...

 

[FL990]

Yes, I have read the postings on the MEC website and it is very apparent what management is doing. They want to basically give us the same contract we have now...that is what they are doing....The MEC comes up with a progessive proposal, then the company comes back with a regressive proposal...they meet in the middle and vwala, you get what we currently have.

And just so you will know, I am not defending them...if i was talking to them, i would have plenty to say just like i have been ranting on this message board. Its just that I have heard so much whining as of recently...some of it very warranted when you think about guys being forced out of there base and being basically told to move or quit. It sucks and everyone has a right to be upset about it, but we are all adults, so lets not whine like children.

As for what you are saying about the operation in Atlanta, you are right, the people on the ramp don't frikin care. You can show up and you may have 10 guys standing around at the gate next to you and half the time, they just keep standin there. It is a mentality that exists in Atlanta, but not really system wide...I have my theories on that too but i'll just keep those to myself...but anyway, you are correct on this, but i don't believe that this is ASA's fault.

 

[sweptback]

As for what you are saying about the operation in Atlanta, you are right, the people on the ramp don't frikin care. You can show up and you may have 10 guys standing around at the gate next to you and half the time, they just keep standin there. It is a mentality that exists in Atlanta, but not really system wide...I have my theories on that too but i'll just keep those to myself...but anyway, you are correct on this, but i don't believe that this is ASA's fault.

Why does a Delta flight never stop short of the gate to wait for rampers to walk over to the gate? I'm guessing cause ops actually notices when the airplane lands and sends rampers out there to wait for the airplane. That doesn't happen at ASA, I really wonder why I bother to make the call to ops on the ground half the time when we pull up to the gate and see nobody there.

 

[Tomct]

Unfortunately for those of us from big "D", it is going to be a painful ride in ATL. You guys are totally right about the mentality thing. I know that the flight crews are busting a$$ to perform better, but the real problem is that there is no accountability in this company. I don't think until Mr. Grinstein gets a closer look, that anything will change at ASA in ATL. All I can say is that I will give it my best to go smoothly!! Hopefully I can get to SLC before to long!!

So I said Yo Lamma....how bout a little sumthin....you know....for the effort...you know...