Comair/ASA guys...check it out

[Networ-King]

This is for all the guys out there thinking that DALPA is the devil and the pilots are out to destroy DCI wages.....

this came from a Q&A email sent out to all Delta Pilots......

7. Why aren't the Connection Carriers taking a contractual hit?

First, the wholly-owned carriers are independent ALPA units and we do
not negotiate for them. Second, the last thing we as pilots want to do
is to push wages down. As the industry has drawn back over the last
few years, we do not want to continue to set a lower bar for any pilot
compensation, as this will ultimately have a detrimental effect on our
pilot group. Aside from the negative implications to trade unionism, for
selfish reasons we want the pilots at our Connection Carriers to make a
decent wage to keep the downward pressure off of us.


And Im sure there is gonna be someone here thats gonna read something else into this and Im sure the flaming is gonna start..... just thought everyone should see exactly what the Delta MEC's thoughts were on paycuts for DCI......

Fins, Sleepy, Bueller?????

flame away yall...........................

 

[NYRANGERS]

Networ-King,


You are wasting your time. If the truth kicked them (rjdc crowd) in the BALLS, they wouldn't feel a thing.

 

[CF34-3B1]

My question is if DALPA doesn't want ASA/CMR to "take a hit" and further lower the bar, why does the TA seem to allow the door to be opened for CHQ and even Mesa to grab the new 70 seat RJ flying.

With ASA in negotiations the last thing we need is management waving the Mesa/CHQ/Air Botswana/Gulfstream et. al. contracts at us.

With no provisions to protect the WO's from the predatory pricing of the contract carriers, you might as well consider the bar lowered.

 

[NYRANGERS]

My question is if DALPA doesn't want ASA/CMR to "take a hit" and further lower the bar, why does the TA seem to allow the door to be opened for CHQ and even Mesa to grab the new 70 seat RJ flying.

With ASA in negotiations the last thing we need is management waving the Mesa/CHQ/Air Botswana/Gulfstream et. al. contracts at us.

With no provisions to protect the WO's from the predatory pricing of the contract carriers, you might as well consider the bar lowered.

We got our butts handed to us on this TA. It is most likely the best we could do in this environment. We lost a lot in this TA, however....DCI picked up 70 seaters and ASA/Comair have a minimum of 25% of the block hours that must be flown by them as long as they are wholley owned.

While I understand your question, I do think it is asking a lot from our group to sacrifice more of our contract to "protect" your jobs.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

All Delta has to do now is get Mesa in here to fly a 97 seat Airbus. Take you off the city pair and there they are. We, and you are out of a job. I think every Delta pilot wants us to take a wage hit. I had to listen to that rhetoric for over an hour today, captive audience on a friendly neighborhood jumpseat. But oh wait, you get preferential HIRING, while we get preferential INTERVIEWS. How's that for a deal. What a lose-lose deal, I hope it doesn't pass...

 

[Vortilon]

Oakum,

Sorry but your hiring standards are not as strict as ours. That is a fact you cannot deny. I doubt you'll see many of us furloughed folks applying anyway since most of us have had plenty of time to get a decent job by now. If we wanted/could afford to fly at a regional again we'd be doing it. Most of us aren't. I get paid more at my stupid charter job than 90% of the DCI pilots.

And I'm growing a little tired of hearing how your career expectations are being hurt when all I see is DCI growing and hiring year after year. Plus ASA/CMR now have a guaranteed 25 percent of the block hours when before you had no protections against competing carriers. DCI just benefits and benefits with every creak of the scope clause.

Nobody wants to see your wages go down. Most of us are just tired of being kicked by you guys while we are down and would like to knock the smirks off your "I'm entitled to a big jet job because I live in CVG and work for CMR and l fly Delta passengers and have a pseudo Delta uniform and Widgets all over my airplane-ridden" faces.

I have to clean &&%@# out of Lavs in my airplane and I'm happy to have a job...all you guys do is bitch about how you're being screwed and most of us are sick of it.

Be happy you may now have a preferential interview someplace...its more than most have to look forward to.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

No sir, that is not it at all. What 99% of us at the wholly-owneds want, is Delta to survive. I know plenty of folks here who are comfortable with their work, and will make a career out of these places whether we grow or not. And they are not members of the RJDC; In fact, I don't know any of those. That lawsuit was brought by one or two people. Your MEC has been lying to you all along. Why is is so hard for ALPA to see that that flying an RJ for a decent wage is not the end of the world? ALPA should have been all over this a long time ago. If they had been, you would right now be negotiating only a pay cut, not throwing away more of your jobs, and ours...

 

[heavy_d]

Vortilon, please do not include most of us at ASA with that statement, I know it says CMR but just the same... Also, would guess most of the CMR guys DO NOT have that same mentality, just as most of us don't see MOST of the mainline folks slamming us all day long either. There is going to be militant, hard line, unwavering people on both sides. I would hope those would be in the VERY small minority....

 

[CF34-3B1]

We got our butts handed to us on this TA. It is most likely the best we could do in this environment. We lost a lot in this TA, however....DCI picked up 70 seaters and ASA/Comair have a minimum of 25% of the block hours that must be flown by them as long as they are wholley owned.

While I understand your question, I do think it is asking a lot from our group to sacrifice more of our contract to "protect" your jobs.

I don't think the ASA pilots expect any sacrifices from DALPA to 'protect' our jobs, but the reality is, if Mesa, Gulfstream, Air Bangladesh, et al are allowed to fly for DCI, the downward pressure on mainline jobs will just be that much greater.

The WO's are trying to narrow the gap between DCI and mainline compensation, as opposed to the contract carriers who are gleefully widening it so they can "Get that 1000PIC and go to SWA........"

All I'm saying is this TA appears to make it easier for them to do so.

 

[Networ-King]

My question is if DALPA doesn't want ASA/CMR to "take a hit" and further lower the bar, why does the TA seem to allow the door to be opened for CHQ and even Mesa to grab the new 70 seat RJ flying.

With ASA in negotiations the last thing we need is management waving the Mesa/CHQ/Air Botswana/Gulfstream et. al. contracts at us.

With no provisions to protect the WO's from the predatory pricing of the contract carriers, you might as well consider the bar lowered.

I knew guys like you would come out of the woodworks and BS your way into making this sound like a bad thing. If this is what you want to ask then why don't you ask.... why does the TA seem to allow the door to be opened for ANY DCI growth over mainline? Yeah, but you don't see that sh!t.... your just the me me me kinda guy and wants to make sure you get your growth at whatever DCI your yanking and banking for. You freaking tool.....why don't you start bashing the mesa and chq guys for lowering the bar? Dalpa has as much to do with their contracts as they do with yours. Thats all I was trying to point out, that Dalpa is not the freaking enemy and they are not trying to tell you guys to take pay cuts. They want to close the gap between Mainline and DCI (WO's)and all you have to say is stupid sh!t that you've been sucking out of the RJDC's tits.

"With no provisions to protect the WO's from the predatory pricing of the contract carriers?" Are you for fu-king real.....Are you that stupid to think this is personal and not business? Get off your freaking high horse and show a little gratitude. Take your EXTRA flying that this POS TA is gonna give you and go get you 1000 hours of PIC so you get in the back of the line with the other 15000 pilots who are more qualified then you.

NYRANGER,

I guess you were right.... I can't wait to hear the argument from some of the other RJDC guys defending sf34tool.

ps. 730

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Umm, I don't believe anyone here asked for more 70 seat flying. Delta management did. Looks like you guys are gonna let the regionals grow some more at your expense. Delta pilots seem to be under a strong delusion. You blame the the RJDC (a lawsuit brought about by one or two old men, and financed by the RJ manufacturers), and again you have the usual, but wrong suspects...

 

[stillflyn]

Why is ASA/CMR worried about Mesa & CHQ? Does it have anything to do with them being willing to fly for less $$$? Hmmmm..... that rings a bell. How did ASA/CMR score all that flying to begin with?

I don't really belong in your arguement but I did see UAL outsource my job to Skywest, AIRWIS, Mesa, CHQ ect. ect.

Let the flaming begin.

 

[General Lee]

No DCI carrier will fly planes larger than 70 seats. I believe the 97 seat deal is for airlines that become DCI carriers, and those planes with 97 seats have to be at other carriers, like United or Indy. I wonder how long Surplus1's next diatribe will be, since he knows that the DL MEC is out to get them!



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

No DCI carrier will fly planes larger than 70 seats. I believe the 97 seat deal is for airlines that become DCI carriers, and those planes with 97 seats have to be at other carriers, like United or Indy. I wonder how long Surplus1's next diatribe will be, since he knows that the DL MEC is out to get them!
Bye Bye--General Lee

Well said General. Surplus tries to be the voice of reason, but sometimes he's like the energizer bunny, going on........and on.........,and I needed to take a pee break during his last post!
737

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Why is ASA/CMR worried about Mesa & CHQ? Does it have anything to do with them being willing to fly for less $$$? Hmmmm..... that rings a bell. How did ASA/CMR score all that flying to begin with?

I don't really belong in your arguement but I did see UAL outsource my job to Skywest, AIRWIS, Mesa, CHQ ect. ect.

Let the flaming begin.

Yeah, you're exactly right. Who let that happen???

 

[stillflyn]

Now that you ask. Not me.... but how do you stop it? When you have a group of people who are willing to come in a work for less, how do you save your job? You don't. How many CRJ700's does it take to replace a 737. Answer...2.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

That is precisely how management gets what they want. All for one and none for all. Everybody fighting for their own little piece of the pie. This is the reality that ALPA has created for itself. Ironic, no?

 

[CF34-3B1]

I knew guys like you would come out of the woodworks and BS your way into making this sound like a bad thing. If this is what you want to ask then why don't you ask.... why does the TA seem to allow the door to be opened for ANY DCI growth over mainline? Yeah, but you don't see that sh!t.... your just the me me me kinda guy and wants to make sure you get your growth at whatever DCI your yanking and banking for. You freaking tool.....why don't you start bashing the mesa and chq guys for lowering the bar? Dalpa has as much to do with their contracts as they do with yours. Thats all I was trying to point out, that Dalpa is not the freaking enemy and they are not trying to tell you guys to take pay cuts. They want to close the gap between Mainline and DCI (WO's)and all you have to say is stupid sh!t that you've been sucking out of the RJDC's tits.

"With no provisions to protect the WO's from the predatory pricing of the contract carriers?" Are you for fu-king real.....Are you that stupid to think this is personal and not business? Get off your freaking high horse and show a little gratitude. Take your EXTRA flying that this POS TA is gonna give you and go get you 1000 hours of PIC so you get in the back of the line with the other 15000 pilots who are more qualified then you.

NYRANGER,

I guess you were right.... I can't wait to hear the argument from some of the other RJDC guys defending sf34tool.

ps. 730

I believe the point you’re (not your) trying to make is;


It’s ok for the WO’s to lose flying to the contract carriers because the mainline guys lost that flying first?

Is that right?

If not, then what exactly is your point?

 

[NYRANGERS]

I believe the point you’re (not your) trying to make is;


It’s ok for the WO’s to lose flying to the contract carriers because the mainline guys lost that flying first?

Is that right?

If not, then what exactly is your point?

No. I think his point is that in the TA we (furloughees) got nothing and DCI will gain aircraft. The DCI wholley owned carriers will also get what they did not negotiate themselves...some scope protection from our TA. It's a start and a positive for ASA and Comair. Asking for more sacrifices from our grouop at this juncture seems extremely self serving.

 

[CF34-3B1]

No. I think his point is that in the TA we (furloughees) got nothing and DCI will gain aircraft. The DCI wholley owned carriers will also get what they did not negotiate themselves...some scope protection from our TA. It's a start and a positive for ASA and Comair. Asking for more sacrifices from our grouop at this juncture seems extremely self serving.

I think you're missing my point.

I'm not asking for sacrifices. And it wouldn't be to protect MY flying, it's to protect YOUR flying.

With the restriction on non permitted AC types gone, nothing will prevent Mesa (or whoever) from bidding on DCI CR7 flying. Most of us agree, those CR7s are going to be used to replace more domestic narrow body mainline flying. Which SHOULD be flown by the furloughees. The only difference now is the furloughed guys will get to do that flying under the Mesa contract.

Once that flying is transfered to the lowest bidder, it will be that much harder to get it back to mainline.