Comair airplanes

[flighttime]

If Comair gets these new planes, when would the deliveries start? Since the pay freeze would only go through 2007 would they have all planes on property by then?

 

[chperplt]

The pay freeze would start when the first airplane flies revenue. June 05 is what Freddy says.

At least 18 airplanes by Dec 06 including 8 70s. 26 total by Dec 07 including 16 70s. All aircraft by March 08

 

[IFLYASA]

You are going to get the airplanes regardless of a pay freeze.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

This won't pass, and the airplanes will show up.

 

[IFLYASA]

Right on Oakum Boy!!

 

[chperplt]

It'll pass and we'll never know.

 

[skyslug]

IFLYASA...and how do you know this???? Can you back this up with absolute, undisputable, tangible evidence? Are you Fred? Can I have your crystal ball?

 

[IFLYASA]

It's all a scare tactic. Growth with Pay Freeze, or no growth without the pay freeze. We were told to extend our amendable contract by 2 years to have growth. So we shot it down, and we are receiving 25 airplanes.

If Comair makes profit now, then it will make more profit with more airplanes (even without a pay freeze). Do you think they would purposely not grow to pass up extra profit, out of spite for the pilots?

I don't think so.

You stood strong for 89 days, keep your heads up.

 

[chperplt]

So we shot it down, and we are receiving 25 airplanes.

How many of those airplanes have shown up yet?

If Comair makes profit now, then it will make more profit with more airplanes (even without a pay freeze). Do you think they would purposely not grow to pass up extra profit, out of spite for the pilots?

Let me start out by saying I am not at all in favor of paying for growth.
That being said, all those who think we are profitable (CMR & ASA) need to lay off the bong water.

We are not at all profitable. We may be able to fly our aircraft in a profitable manner, but we as a company are not profitable. We are a part of the Delta family and they are bleeding horribly. You can say anything you want to counter that, but the facts are the facts.

Every other work group has given up money and some have been giving up money for a couple years now. You wonder why most customer service reps hate pilots?

In the coming years, either ASA or CMR will go by the wasteside in the same manner that ALG has. The only difference with us is we won't be merged before one goes away.

You don't realize that the scare tactic management style of yesteryear is over. It's a take it or leave it mentality today. There is too many other players ready and willing to take your job. Why do you think Delta wrote off almost all of the ASA and CMR purchase cost? They can shut us down in a second and it won't cost the shareholders a penny.

 

[skyslug]

We were asked to make concessions about a year ago during the RFP. Many stated that we would get the planes anyways and were very emphatic about it. We refused. The airplanes didn't shnow up.

We don't know if this is a scare tactic.

We don't know if we will get the planes regardless.

Comair does not necessarily make a profit (according to our negotiators and they are bound by a confidentiality agreement from what I've heard). Liars figure and figures lie. Delta's accounting methods with respect to our profits or lack of is nebulous at best so I honestly don't know if we are profitable or not. I suspect the numbers can be manipulated to support either scenario.

Either way...I still want that crystall ball you have! My Magic 8-ball is in the shop.

 

[IFLYASA]

Chperplt

So are you trying to say "If" you take the pay freeze and get these new airplanes, "then" you will make profit????

Doesn't matter.

We are getting about 2 aircraft per month.

 

[chperplt]

IFLY

That's not what I'm saying at all. We're not going to make a profit until Delta makes a profit. Just like I said above.. We may be able to fly our airplanes profitably, but we are not profitable. You may not see a difference there but a difference there is.

2 aircraft a month starting when? How many are flying the line right now.

 

[IFLYASA]

I know we have already started receiving them. ASA would like to convert the orders to 70's as oppose to 50's. All 25 orders are for the 50 as of now. Ship 928EV was the first.

Remember, we are all on the same team, stay strong.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

We don't make enough as it is. If my job goes bye-bye to some mesa punk, whatever. I hope Delta gets what it pays for.

I can do better for the amount of stress and bs I deal with in this job. Y'all don't realize exactly how much harder a "regional" pilot works compared with any legacy pilot. I'm not talking duty hours, I'm talking all the bs that we deal with on a daily basis. It's a war zone out there for RJ pilots, and I want to be paid accordingly. Please don't give in for the promise of growth. Comair and ASA pilots are paid to fly airplanes, not finance aircraft or Fred Buttrell's retirement. Get REAL guys, please!

 

[AV8700]

Where is Surplus?

 

[P38JLightning]

class envy

>>>>You wonder why most customer service reps hate pilots?


Chopper,

They hate us because they think the fact that we make more than they do and have more days off is a travesty. As far as they are concerned, they do just as much work to get each flight out as the pilots do. If the flight goes out on time it is the station's credit (i.e. theirs) and if its late, many times they blame the pilots. Just check the delay codes.

They are also ticked we can ride the jumpseat, especially on other airlines. This is a basic class envy/class warfare mentality that is predominant in the gate agent/C.S. job fields (but by no means is exclusive to those fields).


>>>There is too many other players ready and willing to take your job.

yep.

>>>Why do you think Delta wrote off almost all of the ASA and CMR purchase cost? They can shut us down in a second and it won't cost the shareholders a penny.

Maybe, but they also did it so that when/if they sell us they can record a "profit". You figure 2B for Comair, 1B for ASA, another Billion for our strike and ramp up costs, and 4-5B for more growth at both since then, for a grand total of at least 8-10B, and if they sold us both at the same time they would be lucky to get 1B.

The write off I think was to set the stage during the next inevitable upswing, and it will occur, they will be able to spin us off and add that to whatever other profit they record for they year. Remember, they just got massive stock options. Immagine what a years worth of Delta profitability would do to the price of DAL stock, and if you had 100,000 or more options, well there ya go. And no one will remember the 10B bungled investment in the first place or the 2B "writedown".

 

[cl65capt]

Where is Surplus?

Those million word posts take a while to write.

 

[FreightNazi]

Where is Surplus?

He's frozen.

 

[jetflyer]

Those million word posts take a while to write.

That's funny cl65capt. By tonight we'll see a "PART 5 of 5" post from him I'm sure

We miss you surplus!

Oh and LET'S START A POLL, what do you guys think the percentages will be FOR/AGAINST ON THE COMAIR LOA???

I say "60/40" FOR PASSING THE LOA. Any other opinions?

Jet

 

[AV8700]

That's funny cl65capt. By tonight we'll see a "PART 5 of 5" post from him I'm sure

We miss you surplus!

Oh and LET'S START A POLL, what do you guys think the percentages will be FOR/AGAINST ON THE COMAIR LOA???

I say "60/40" FOR PASSING THE LOA. Any other opinions?

Jet

Hope not. If so we just became the Piedmont, PSA and Allegheny of Delta

 

[chperplt]

P38

You're spouting the party line from years ago. Come to the now and realize things have changed. It has nothing to do with the jumpseat and has nothing to do with more days off or more pay. It has all to do with the attitude.

 

[xray678]

Where is Surplus?

Surplus is retired. Probably out playing golf.

 

[P38JLightning]

mmm...not so sure

>>>>You're spouting the party line from years ago. Come to the now and realize things have changed. It has nothing to do with the jumpseat and has nothing to do with more days off or more pay. It has all to do with the attitude.

I don't know about that. Sure you have a few pilots who give gate agents a bunch of attitude, but no more than you have rampers or FA's giving them attitude. I've seen heated squabbles between ticket counter and the gate at the same station over attitudes.

And for every jerk wad pilot there are dozens of us who bust @ss, take out the trash, help the FA's, get releases when they are supposed to be brought to us, stay on top of them about "specials" and get flights out on time all day long that otherwise wouldn't go out on time if we just did it "by the book" and getting the flight out on time is more the gate agent's bread and butter than it is ours.

But I think there is a prevailing sentiment among gate agents that all pilots are overpaid and underworked, especialy compared to how they view their own jobs. I get the same (though to a lesser extent) from FA's. They don't see anything wrong with making as much or more than some FO's. As far as they are concerned, we are all crew and all do the same overnights and ride the same van so therefore we do the same job. They wish they could just kick it and chill when the door closes like they think we always do.

All this coming from people who have a much better understanding of what we do compared to the general population, who thinks we all make 300K a year, fly 2 days a week and always do the same "route".

Of course next time you sense their envious attitide towards us, just tell them to take advantage of the company's internal job transfer program. As long as they have a year with the company, they can just slide on over to flight ops and live the dream. (Yes I realize its just a little more complicated than that, but the key is to let them figure that out on their own).

 

[Oakum_Boy]

You can't seriously compare pilots to flight attendants or gate personnel. Same job my arse!

 

[TO/TO]

i think many are voting for the LOA not in order to get new planes, but out of fear of what may happen if they vote no. some have suggested that Comair's 70's will be transferred to another entity (ASA) as a way of lowering Comair's cost structure (no 70-seat pay scale = huge cost savings). one only has to look at what has happened at other airlines to see that there is a definate downward pressure on costs. Comair will get it's pay reduction one way or another.
good luck all

 

[JI Gone OH]

Oh and LET'S START A POLL, what do you guys think the percentages will be FOR/AGAINST ON THE COMAIR LOA???

Close.... I say it passes 64/36 with a 72% Voter Turnout

 

[surplus1]

That's funny cl65capt. By tonight we'll see a "PART 5 of 5" post from him I'm sure

We miss you surplus!

Jet

Thanks Jet, I love you too. And, I do apologize for cl65capt's short span of attention.

Surplus1 has just been lurking, reading, listening and studying the LOA. I now have all the "details" and the devils have been exorcised. What we see is now what we get. I'm a sucker for details and I like to know what I'm voting for or against. Promises don't mean anything to me. I've made up my mind and know what I would like to see next.

Your "poll" is interesting but I don't like your numbers. Whichever way this goes, I'd like to see 90/10, not 60/40. Right or wrong, unity is our best bet. A narrowly divided group is not a good thing regardless of which side you favor.

Now, why don't you guess which way I'll vote? I'd like to see who's been paying attention and who got lost in the rhetoric.

S1

PS. The votes of those that are not CMR pilots don't count.

 

[cl65capt]

Thanks Jet, I love you too. And, I do apologize for cl65capt's short span of attention.

No need to apologize for me but I do appreciate it. Now what was it you were talking about, my short attention....oh the heck with it, back to SportsCenter for me.
Just messing with you surplus, I hope everything works out for you guys.

ps. I bet you vote no, as for the split I bet its along the lines of 60/40 it passes, hope I'm wrong

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Gee, those numbers sound familiar ...

Close.... I say it passes 64/36 with a 72% Voter Turnout

Instead of a 2 to 1 ratio, it'll be 3 to 2. Oh well, better learn how to spell 'Chautauqua' correctly.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Is the whole deal with management based on pilots and FA's agreeing to the proposals? If so, any idea how the FA's are going to vote on their proposal? Also, what affect, if any, do the mechanics have on the whole "growth" issue, seeing how they recently voted down a TA?