Comair 50 Seat F/O Bidding 70? Pros/Cons

[Treme]

I was trying to decide whether to bother bidding the 70 seater on the next bid. I hold a line on the 50 and have few complaints. It appears only to be about a $4/hr difference between the two. With upgrade times up around the decade mark now, might make sense to take the cash. (I wouldn't pass up $4000 on the side of the road)

I think i'll still be able to hold a line on the 70, but would have only a dozen or so lineholders behind me. There is always the risk of falling back onto reserve and losing the extra pay by going from an 85-95 hr line to 76 hr guarantee.

For anyone who has already transitioned, or who is considering transition, could you please share your thought process? Pros? Cons?

Thanks

 

[captainv]

the 70 isn't commutable, so that tanked it for me. even so, i look up my classmates and see what they ask for vs. what they get. on both aircraft, we've got about 40% of the list below us. on the 50, i can get weekends off and commutable trips. even holidays haven't been a problem. occasionally i can even snag a specific pairing. on the 70, it's hit and miss. some months they get what they ask for, sometimes they don't. if you'd be a junior lineholder, i assume you'd work most weekends and esp. holidays. how have the last few bids gone? are the FOs bidding over mostly senior to you?

 

[skydiverdriver]

Upgrade times are not at a decade! It is true that most of the captains upgrading right now have been there ten years, but they are the few that decided to wait to get a good schedule before upgrading. When we start to grow again, they upgrade senority will go down, just as before. The guys that are upgrading now waited by choice, not because they had to. Otherwise, the people who are captains that have only been at Comair for four years would never have been able to upgrade.

 

[Anaconda]

Upgrade times are not at a decade! It is true that most of the captains upgrading right now have been there ten years, but they are the few that decided to wait to get a good schedule before upgrading. When we start to grow again, they upgrade senority will go down, just as before. The guys that are upgrading now waited by choice, not because they had to. Otherwise, the people who are captains that have only been at Comair for four years would never have been able to upgrade.

comair is upgrading now? i guess you must be talking about the 70, because we haven't had an upgrade class in the 50 in some time. so yeah, you could say upgrade is a decade now since we have no idea what the future will bring. it's almost impossible to forecast what things will be like down the road at this point. when, or should i say IF, we start to grow again. i for one really don't share the optimism that a lot of people have around here...

as for the 70, i would say if you live in the cincitucky area, it might be a no-brainer. however, if you commute, i would say no. as the other guy said, the schedules are not that great for commuters. even worse than the 50, which hasn't been all that in recent months. also, it seems as though the most recent vacancy bids have gone just a little more senior as guys start to realize that is the only aircraft growing these days. that means pushing those guys down on the bottom just a little bit closer to reserve or bad schedules. remember, 3-year freeze if you bid back to the 50.

 

[Cyclonic]

I don't know if this makes sense or not but what I do is calculate what percentage of the CRJ FOs are currently below me and compare it to the percentage of CR7 FOs that would be below me if I bid that aircraft.When there is the same or a greater percentage of CR7 FOs below me as with the CRJ, then I'll bid the CR7. Until then, as a commuter, I can't afford to make the switch. I'd rather slit my wrists then go back to reserve (see discussion on the 10-year upgrade) and I can't stay awake for high-speeds. So, the 50-seater is it for now.

 

[JI Gone OH]

As the saying goes; if its' not broke, don't fix it. Unless you aspire to do overnight's in BUF BGR OKC GRR and ROC most of the time, keep the diversity of the 50. Just my thought.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

This is a move I've contemplated also, but I think I've ruled it out. The pay would be really nice, but I'm within sight of holding a line in the 50...on the 70 I would be junior reserve punk forever. Just not worth it for me, but for you it might make some sense. (By the way, since you are senior to me I strongly encourage you to move over to the 70 )

KAK

 

[Treme]

Skydiverdriver,

Last quarter 11 first officers left Comair. Some were furloughed pilots who went to Jetblue and AirTran. Most went to Chautauqua (from what I hear) in search of a faster upgrade. Attrition is coming from the bottom.

On the July seniority list I moved up about 10 numbers.

10.

There are only two things that drive upgrades. Growth and attrition. Two more CR7s are slated for delivery after which growth will come to a stop. Attrition, as you can see, has also slowed dramatically.

With 1800 pilots on the list I would need roughly 400 folks to leave, or the company to buy 80 airplanes in order to upgrade. (80 airplanes = 800 pilots = 400 capt/400 f/o)

That is what I meant by "upgrades approaching a decade". Based on the information we have at time, there is no way to determine how long an upgrade might take. I dont know about you, but I need the money. I could care less about sitting in the left seat, but I could sure use the pay raise.

That is why I was considering the 70. Its an extra $4000/year or, if you would prefer, around a 10% pay raise.

(At least until when, in bankruptcy, they mix the 50/70 fleet, train everyone on the 70 and either create a blended payrate or an override for the 70.)

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Bobby Orr]

Hey KingAirKiddo,

Just curious, how long is the average time on reserve now w/ Comair?

Thx,
Orr

 

[V-1]

When we start to grow again, they upgrade senority will go down, just as before.

We've seen what happens when Delta decides to grow DCI. Delta shops around for the cheapest labor rate available, then makes a decision who gets new aircraft.

I believe you're more optimistic than I, however I don't believe in placing my family's economic future entirely in the hands of an employer who chooses to operate in this manner. It's time for me to focus on increasing my education level, decreasing my debt level, and perhaps start or purchase a business. That way, if new airplanes come (entirely out of my control) I benefit. If new airplanes don't come (again entirely out of my control) I still benefit.

Growth cannot continue forever. Comair will not see significant numbers of retirements for another eight years or so. Plan accordingly.

Respectfully,
V-1

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Sorry Bobby...wasn't ignoring your question; I've just been busy flying my reserve butt off. It's looking like it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-18 months for new hires (if not longer). I've been here around a year and am still on reserve (and less than a dozen numbers from holding a line--varies month to month based on block hours).