Comair 50 or 70 seat?

[Shark]

I'm looking forward to start training and was wondering...
Does the company put you where you are needed or are you able to bid for 50 or 70 seat ,and if able to bid what are some of the pros and cons of each not just a/c differences but things such as time spent on reserve before being able to hold a line, trip differences, etc?
Thanks

 

[Looking4Traffic]

What I've heard is that every new hire is going through training on the 50-seater and then, if needed are going through differences training into the 70-seater and taking a second check-ride. The 70-seater is going pretty junior for FOs which may be a comment on its lack of desireability from a reserve/schedule standpoint. As newbies, we may be junior-manned into the 70-seater. On the other hand, I've also heard that it's a great plane to fly, so life ain't all bad.

 

[ERJpusher]

A friend of mine was recently hired and juniored into the 70 seater. He says he will be sitting reserve for a long time. Also, he said something about being seat locked in the 70 seater (2 years?) and that he would not be able to bid on the 50 seater (for better schedules, faster upgrades) until the seat lock was over. Other Comair pilots can probably substantiate this.

 

[Gregory24]

No seat lock for new hires, but if you bid from the 50 to 70 you are then seat locked for 1 year. 70 to the 50 you are then seat locked 3 years. The reserve also looks shorter for the 70 at the moment, but the trips aren't has good.

 

[skiddriver]

Reasons for new-hires not to bid the 70 seater:

1) You will be at the bottom of the seniority list for a long time, which can mean years on reserve. I got off reserve on the 50 seater in a couple of months (though the later you get hired, the longer you'll be on reserve regardless of equipment). More senior F/O's will bid across infront of you as attrition opens slots above you, which will keep you at the bottom of the list.

2) First year pay is the same for both airplanes.

3) After the first year, you'll get a regular line sooner as a 50 seat F/O. A regular line currently pays an 82 hour guarantee. Reserve pays a 75 hour guarantee. 70 seat pay is 110% of 50 seat pay. If you get paid guarantee, a 50 seat regular line holder gets paid 1/2 hour less in 50 seat pay than a 70 reserve F/O ($15-$20 a month).

4) If you're a commuter, and you want a CD line, there are a lot more available on the 50 seater.

5) If you bid the 70 seater and get it, you can't downgrade for 36 months if you'd prefer to get a better line in the 50 seater. If you get involuntarily junior manned into the 70 seater, you can downgrade to the 50 after 12 months.

6) 70 seaters are having some reliability issues which mean more frustrating maintenance issues than the 50.

Reasons for new-hires to bid the 70 seater:

1) After the first year, same type line to same type line (reserve, CD, regular) - the 70 seater pays 110% of 50 seat pay ($300-$325 per month).

2) Once all the 70 seat jets are delivered, and the seats are filled, vacancy bids will only occur to compensate for attrition. If upward movement slows or stops, and you wanted to fly the 70 seater, you may not be able to get into it easily.

Good luck.

 

[asarjfo]

4) If you're a commuter, and you want a CD line, there are a lot more available on the 50 seater.

Skiddriver,

Is it true that the Company provides a hotel during the day if you are on a CD line? I have heard this from a few "sources", but none of them happen to be Comair pilots. Just goes to show how good my sources are. One more question, could you descride exactly how the commuter policy works.

Thanks
ASARJFO

 

[skiddriver]

Yes, the company provides a hotel room in CVG between CD flights.

We fly our high speeds in 2 and 3 day cycles, with 2 to 3 days off in between. There is the odd 1 day trip, but they are uncommon. They do mess up the hotel deal however.

On a one day cycle, you report the first night, return the next morning and are released. The company doesn't give you a room in CVG.

On a two day cycle, you report the first night, return the next morning. The company provides you a room in CVG for that day to rest. You report the second night, return the next morning, and are released. The company does not provide a room.

On a three day cycle, you get a company room in CVG on your return from your first and second trips.

You don't get a room the day you commute in to start a cycle, you don't get a room the day you release from a cycle, and (important safety tip) you don't get a room if your trip is cancelled. So if you report in for a trip and you get cancelled, you are on your own until the following night when you report for the next trip in the cycle. Folks say this is uncommon, but I had four trips cancelled last month due to weather.

So depending how your line is written, you can get as many as 10 company provided rooms in CVG (a line with 5 three-day cycles) or as few as none (if all your trips are cancelled). The rest of the time you're on your own to find a room or a barcalounger in the sleep room. I'm still crunching the numbers and seeing if it pays for me to drop my crashpad.

The real reason the CD lines appeal to me as a New Orleans commuter, is that I can travel in on the afternoon of the first day of the cycle, and get home on the 0900 flight when I release. I average 17-18 nights at home a month, and have an additional 4-5 mornings with the family before I leave for a trip.

For your second question, in a nutshell, the commuter policy says that you have to try to get to work (list) on two flights departing at least 1 hour apart, either one of which will get you to CVG on time to check in. If you don't make it, and let the company know, you just lose pay, not your job. There are a bunch of OBTW rules concerning if you get back on to your pairing when you finally get to work, and how much pay you lose, but I haven't had to exercise any of them yet. I only travel on Delta or DCI to get to CVG, so I don't know how it would work on another carrier. Management can go into the travel records for Delta and DCI to confirm you listed and tried to board the flights. I'm trying to reduce the stress in my life, so I might leave a flight earlier than necessary if it means I'm more likely to get to work on the first try, but that's just me.

Good luck.

 

[sjflyer]

What is a CD line?

 

[Looking4Traffic]

CD Lines & Good Fortune

CD is, I believe, "Continuous Duty". It's a duty day (i.e. no intermittent rest requirement) that begins in the evening of Day 1 and ends in the morning of Day 2. It resolves the following issue for the company: "How can we have a late flight to Minneapolis, and then an early flight the next morning, using the same aircraft and crew (so that we don't have to have a crew base in MSP)?" Answer: have the crew show up at CVG around 10:00 p.m., fly a 11:00 p.m. flight to MSP, and then have them fly the 5:30 a.m. flight back to CVG, where rest begins at a CVG hotel.

Skid: does the company put you up in a hotel for a few hours in MSP in that situation?

Good fortune: thanks to SkidDriver and other lurkers who have been cool enough to answer all the Newbie questions. It's really been great getting answers to all these questions while we 'patiently' wait for our classes to start. Thanks.

 

[Anaconda]

great post skiddriver...

that is too bad about the hotel on cd lines if your trip cxl...i've often wondered about that...seems kind of odd since in reality the room is really paid for imho...

regarding point 3: don't forget about per diem, it can add up and make a big diff if you are doing overnight trips on the 50-seater (non-taxable) and say you only do 1-day trips or no trips at all on the 70 (taxed per-diem or none at all)

point 5...i believe the freeze is only 12 months when you bid to higher paying equipment vice 36 months. when/if you bid down to lower-paying equip (50 seater) the lock is 36 months.

to quote the contract: "3. All equipment freezes will be twelve (12) months, except as provided below.

5. Except as otherwise provided in paragraph O.11., below, a pilot awarded the same status in a
different equipment with the same rate of pay will incur a thirty-six (36) month freeze.

6. Except as otherwise provided in paragraph O.11., below, a pilot awarded the same status in a
different equipment with a lower rate of pay will incur a thirty-six (36) month freeze."

regarding the MSP question from Looking4traffic...

"3. The Company will provide single occupancy lodging for a pilot during a pairing when:
a. He is scheduled or rescheduled for a five and one-half (5.5) or more hour break between
flights away from domicile;
b. He is scheduled or rescheduled for a five and one-half (5.5) or more hour break between
flights while on duty at domicile;
c. He is scheduled or rescheduled for a four (4) or more hour break between flights while on
duty and any part of the break occurs between 2000 hours and 0600 hours; or,
d. He is on a continuous duty overnight (CD)."