college

[falconpileit]

I've never had one person ask me how much education I have. They only want to know how much time you have and in what kind of equipment.

 

[DoinTime]

Haven't done to much airline flying have you?

 

[falconpileit]

nope

No I haven't but I have many many friends and family who have. The airlines historically have used education as a wild card. If they have plenty of apps on file they will use your education to weed out. If they need seats filled, they don't care what education you have. I have a family member who flies for a major, he has no college and is very senior. He's a great pilot, a great person and very intelligent. The airline has seen that and could care less what piece of paper he has, from a university.

I have two degrees and have worked for some major corporations. Not once did they inquire about my education. That was the only point I was trying to make.

 

[MYFpilot]

Go To college. It doesn't matter where (Preferably not BYU, though) and enjoy it while you can. I think it makes you a more insightful and well rounded person. You learn new ways of thinking and problem solving. Plus, you'll have some great stories to tell your fellow line pilots.

..."Oh yeah, one time I was at this frat party and these two cheerleaders..."

You get the Idea right?

 

[BRA]

I have little repect for college too. And i have my 4 year degree. It's just a way to keep the caste system intact. Some of the strangest people you can meet teach the classes too. Masters of their own domain. Not too many people have a bigger head then teachers i think. ERAU had some good ones....the ones that were older ex military. They were cool. Of course they were not your traditional type of teacher. I guess college can be more worth it to someone that is going in not knowing what they want to do. People say education can't hurt you. I say Bullsh1t!!! It will kill your bank account and credit rating. especially when you change majors and none of the credits transfer. A good amount of college is a waste of money. learning about greek mythology is fine.....paying for it is not.

 

[Beechnut]

Yeah, don't go to College. Waste of time and money. Just practice NDB approaches.

Good Luck!

S.

 

[BRA]

No, you still need to go. But try and get it all right the first time. If possible. And practice NDB approaches...those are a killer

 

[starvingcfi]

gotta second the BYU thing. don't even visit utah.

 

[PSL]

I have little repect for college too. And i have my 4 year degree. It's just a way to keep the caste system intact. Some of the strangest people you can meet teach the classes too. Masters of their own domain. Not too many people have a bigger head then teachers i think. ERAU had some good ones....the ones that were older ex military. They were cool. Of course they were not your traditional type of teacher. I guess college can be more worth it to someone that is going in not knowing what they want to do. People say education can't hurt you. I say Bullsh1t!!! It will kill your bank account and credit rating. especially when you change majors and none of the credits transfer. A good amount of college is a waste of money. learning about greek mythology is fine.....paying for it is not.

BRA:

I'm not sure what ERAU is; but it's obvious that you harbor some strong feelings of regret and anger towards your collegiate experience. You should feel lucky that you can enjoy the possible future rewards of your degree rather than denouncing your efforts as wasteful.

Secondly, I can only assume from your post that you are young and looking for a direct correlation to materialize between college and your flying career. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news; but there isn't one. We are in the midst of the worst avaition recession in 30 years; I endured the last one during the early 1990s. Pilots by the thousands are out of work. Go talk to my friends who are 17 year USAirways pilots looking at furlough and see how much sympathy you receive. I'll bet you are in for a rude awakening.

IMHO, college degrees alone prove very little. I flew with many pilots at the regional level who, for a multitude of reasons, had not attended college or were unable to do so. They were capable and competent in every area that applied to daily operations. However, they almost uniformily wished they had decided (or look harder for the finances) to go to college rather than beginning flight training.

College degrees, by themselves, are meaningless. I have three of them (BBA, MBA, Ph.D.); so I know from what I speak.

It's the broadening (liberal arts) and techinical training (major) that provide the opportunity to enhance your personal and professional life. The degree will not correct a faulty personality or make your four day trip any easier to bear. But it will provide you with an ability to see that the world is often much larger and more complex than your perspective might offer.

As you post demonstrates in the clearest terms, you have an opinion and are entitled to voice it. Twenty years in this industry might change your outlook; then again ... maybe not.

 

[starvingcfi]

you've got over 17000 hours and you've never heard of embry riddle? get out man. welcome to the internet.

 

[BRA]

Interesting reply. Just to understand... If afforded the opportunity to do it all over.....i would do it the exact same way. I don't regret going to college. But it all needs improvement. Have you seen how the whole system of trying to pay for it works? it is designed to turn you away. FAFSA forms and parent loans and what not. You can only get most loans if you have a "credit" worthy cosigner. If i had that...then i wouldn't need the loan! And the aid pamplets talk about how aunts and uncles are all willing to help with your education cause it is an investment......yeah right!!!!! I can't ask my uncle to cosign for a loan....he has his own kids to worry about when they get to college. I know i'm not alone on this. It's not ERAU..it's college in general. If you were back in college tomorrow.......and saw some of the homework assignments...and how these teachers act.....you would say "you have got to be kidding me" And i am well aware that you just need "a degree" not an aviation degree. You may have just understood me wrong....because you seem to agree with me that the degrees by themselves are meaningless. No doubt...i am glad i got it done....and it can't be taken away from me.

 

[PSL]

you've got over 17000 hours and you've never heard of embry riddle? get out man. welcome to the internet.

Yes... I have heard of Embry Riddle Aeronautical University ... and yes I've been flying for 20 years and yes I've been using the internet since 1993 when Windows for Workgroups 3.11 was considered cutting edge technology.

As you point out, I'll let you judge for yourself if I get out enough ...

As far as my lack of understanding of the abbreviation for Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, my most humble apologies.

You will soon find out as you progress in this profession; familiarity with abbreviations is as much a function of your background as your current employment.

I learned one today.

Thanks.

 

[PSL]

Interesting reply. Just to understand... If afforded the opportunity to do it all over.....i would do it the exact same way. I don't regret going to college. But it all needs improvement. Have you seen how the whole system of trying to pay for it works? it is designed to turn you away. FAFSA forms and parent loans and what not. You can only get most loans if you have a "credit" worthy cosigner. If i had that...then i wouldn't need the loan! And the aid pamplets talk about how aunts and uncles are all willing to help with your education cause it is an investment......yeah right!!!!! I can't ask my uncle to cosign for a loan....he has his own kids to worry about when they get to college. I know i'm not alone on this. It's not ERAU..it's college in general. If you were back in college tomorrow.......and saw some of the homework assignments...and how these teachers act.....you would say "you have got to be kidding me" And i am well aware that you just need "a degree" not an aviation degree. You may have just understood me wrong....because you seem to agree with me that the degrees by themselves are meaningless. No doubt...i am glad i got it done....and it can't be taken away from me.

I'm pleased you have no regrets concerning your collegiate choices to date; I hope one day you will achieve exactly what you set out to do and can attribute at least some part of your success to your education.

Now, on to your other points. To paraphrase; life ain't fair.

College admissions (and paying for your degree) were'nt any better twenty years ago either. The rich kids didn't need the financial aid and the poor kids either got a free ride from the State, the Athletic Department or the school itself all in the name of providing education to economically disadvantaged members of society.

That left the kids who's parents worked and occupied middle class lifestyles to jump through a series of hurdles often only securing a headache and a mountain of pointless paperwork.

With regard to your comment that the assignments seem pointless...

Sometimes arrogance seems to have a firm grip on academics.
Eccentric personalities, mood swings and constantly moving grading scales may be (but probably were not) the norm in the college you attended.

But, in hindsight; isn't that the way we describe some hiring practices at the airlines? I am puzzled to this day why some airlines hire the people they do. The point is, I don't have to know or agree with them for that matter. My yardstick of fairness is simply that, biased and personal.

I can offer my experiences to support the following statement: as you progress through life you will come to realize that there is a great deal more grey than the black and white we as pilots are told to seek during our professional duties.

That's the paradox of collegiate education and professional flying. In this economy, you need one to do the other; but it would be more interesting to do them in reverse order.

Youth is wasted on the young !!!

I love that quote, I'm starting to understand what my grandfather meant by that statement

Scott

 

[DoinTime]

Maybe the whole point in needing a college degree lies in airlines trying to obtain personnel capable of the level of self sacrifice that is required to excel. Putting up with moody, erratic professors, mountains of paperwork, and endless piles of meaningless homework is some of the best training for the airline environment you can get without getting on board an aircraft. Amazing that all these things, with a little bit of stick time to make it palatable, are exactly what you will encounter everyday when flying the line.

Airlines have a countless number of whoops. They want people that can jump through them.

 

[bobbysamd]

Don't discount a four-year degree's value

I've never had one person ask me how much education I have. They only want to know how much time you have and in what kind of equipment.

I read your post below. What was there to ask? Perhaps no one asked because your educational level was apparent from your resume.

I have a four-year degree. I attended four commuter interviews and one (waste of time) cattle call. I was never asked about education, either.

That's not the point. Among other things, getting the degree proves that you can succeed in an academic program and learning situations. That you have study skills sufficient to apply to tough academics, that you can manage time, and that you have good comprehension abilities.

Yeah, in good hiring times any void at the majors of qualified applicants will be filled quickly by applicants with less than a four-year degree. But don't hold your breath for that to happen for at least a few years. The majors have to absorb their furloughees (and did I read in the Sunday Denver Post that United will be furloughing another 500 pilots?). Therefore, to be competitive, you need the degree, and from an accredited school.

 

[katanabob]

You have all missed the highlight of this thread and, imho, what could be the most vital piece of information we could get out of this discussion:
Who are the girls in the picture (MYFpilot's avatar) and where do we need to go to meet them?

 

[Major Tom]

A college degree doesn't make you a better pilot, but that's not the point. Teachers are often self-centered pricks, that's not the point either. The guys with the cheerleaders on their posts, yeah, THOSE guys get the point. College rocks. Go to school. Why would you not want to go? So I'm in debt up to my ears--I'd go back if I could justify it. Don't like the teachers? Don't go to class. You've got all your life to be serious about flying. Might as well have a blast while you prepare. I'm going to go look at my yearbook and cry now. Peace.

 

[bobbysamd]

M.B.A.

What sucks is that I didn't realize how awesome college was until now... with one semester left. I am seriously considering pursuing my MBA, since this industry is somewhat in the crapper, and my career goals included aviation management.

I would if I were you. It used to be that the airlines promoted their line pilots to Flight Managers.

I do agree with Major Tom about some college profs being self-centered. Our Marketing prof was one such person. His course was too hard. I'm not saying that because I barely got through it; it was because so many people failed it - even multiple times. If you have too many failures there is something wrong with the course. Your FOI section about what makes a valid test is my support thereof. Course results should be like a bell curve.

The jerk had tenure, by the way.

 

[Bai B Nai]

This is a very interesting thread. My 99 year old grandfather says "college dulls diamonds and polishes stones." Of course he didn't attend college. He made it to the 8th grade and went on to become postmaster in a small town in New York. Those were the days. (gov't. jobs anyway!)

I should say my college experiences were positive.

 

[VFR on Top]

Go To college. It doesn't matter where (Preferably not BYU, though)

I like the way you think, MYFpilot!

My two favorite teams: the U of U, and whoever's playing BYU!

 

[MYFpilot]

Yeah, it seems like there are a lot of MWC fans on this board. And yes, unfortunately a few BYU drones too.

But hey, VFR are you going to the game next sat? The Utes are coming to the fishbowl where they'll suffer a loss to the Aztecs to open conference play.

 

[mrvmo]

In the words of Billy Madison, "Don't leave. Don't ever leave. Stay as long as you can!"

 

[CRJFlyer]

i'll take the billy madison approach to thinking anyday of the week and twice on sundays....as i sit here on my 2 week vacation i find i have nothing to do but drink beer, go to the gym and wake up at noon and do it all over again....sad thing is I have yet to receive my diploma....but my friends have theirs and are working at either the carwash, construction, or the gym that I attend and they even get to swipe my card...

I'm not against college, I'm still trying to attend as a matter of fact, but my cool A#$ job won't allow me to finish, and with all the time off college would just interfere with my free vacations to anywhere in the world...

College has its positives and its negatives...Positives are somewhat self explanatory, but having a 60K student loan and still working at Klee's carwash is definitely not one of them...

I attended 2 four year universities and now have 1 class left for a degree at my current two year school.Problem is I transferred 3 times and changed majors 3 times so many of my credits mean jack. Good news is that I've had an interview offer from most all of the airlines I've applied to. I think it has to do with how you are as a person, not necessarily if you went to college. Of course I always bring my Dean's List certificates with me for good measure.

When I have kids, and if they decide to attend college I will definitely give them the advice that if you aren't specific as to what you want to do either don't go right away, or atleast go to a community college to figure it out..Otherwise its just a $60K waste of money.

 

[BRA]

well said crjflyer