College Student needing career advice...

[mhcasey]

Hey guys,

Any advice you all can offer will be greatly appreciated.

I'm a sophomore undergraduate student at the University of Texas in Austin, majoring in Philosophy and Plan II Honors (its an honors liberal arts degree basically...a lesser known program, but very competitive...visit the UT website if you're interested in learning more). I've wanted to fly my whole life, but gave up on the idea my senior year of high school when I decided I didn't want to go to the Air Force Academy and I learned of how difficult it was for my Dad to work his way into an Airline Position 25 years ago.

Now, I've decided that since aviation is still the only thing I've ever wanted to do for a living, I'm going to do it despite the challenges and "tricky" market (a term I use loosely to encompass the varying posts of read, some of which told of nightmares in the market today, others describing dreams come true).

Apart from currently working on my Private Pilot Certification, flying on a ton of American Airlines Flights (since Dad's a pilot, flying is super cheap until I graduate), and researching planes my entire life, I don't have any flight-specific training, certifications, or hours.

The plan I've come up with is to stick around at the university for another two years to finish up my B.A. (I've only got about 40 hours remaining after this semester for my B.A., so I'll either get a serious job or take as much math/physics/aerospace as I can before graduating), get as many certifications/ratings as time/money will allow for during that time (though until I get a better job, I'll only have about $15-20,000 left after I get my Private, so loans might have to play a factor), then hopefully come out flying the odd jobs to build hours fast so I can be hired by a regional carrier.

I don't really know how I'm going to afford all of this. Can anyone offer any advice? I've read a few ideas such as washing airplanes for flight time. It seems like the best way is to just start meeting a lot of people, especially those who happen to have enough money to own airplanes. I've also looked for some scholarships without a whole lot of luck, but I haven't searched too deeply yet.

Would anyone recommend a military route? I'm tossing around the idea of going through the Air National Guard since I don't think I sign my soul over to them, unlike I would have at the Academy.

My Dad took two years off from school to get a 2-year aviation degree. I'd prefer to avoid that, but woud anyone recommend that route, or any specific 2-year programs?

Please, do not post any replies to the tune of "Oh you're getting your degree? Good! Forget about aviation because the market sucks!" I'm well aware that the industry is not as glamorous as most people think, and I'm well aware of the challenges that await before I even get into the industry.

Any other advice will be warmly welcomed though.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Sawmill]

Hi Mike. Congrats on your decision to fly. Also, glad to see you can filter out most of the BS from people on this site who obviously should be in other lines of work. Heres my .02: 1. The military option is a great way to fly for free...as long as you think you could handle the military lifestyle. 2. I didnt start to fly until about 5 years ago and I choose to buy a cheap airplane (IFR) and split the costs with other pilots when I could. I earned all my ratings and networked like hell. By doing this, I got a type rating and a ton of turbine time for practically next to nothing. You never know who you'll meet at the airport! 3. Avoid PFT like the plague...you will overspend big time and in general, it is frowned upon in the industry.
When I was where you are now, I couldnt wait to have all my ratings and I thought it would take forever. But, the tme built pretty quickly and I enjoyed every hour! Good luck and hope to see you on the line one day.

 

[Draginass]

1. Flying the line for an airline has little bearing on what degree you get. Nobody's going to care if you took some aerospace engineering/physics courses or not. It's irrelevent, practically speaking, to airline flying or getting an airline job.

2. The USAFR or ANG is pretty busy picking up the slack that the active forces can't handle these days, so don't expect a semi-free ride nor an easy time getting a pilot slot with them. If you want to serve your country great. If you only want to "use" the Guard to further your civilian career, please don't waste their time.

3. Finish your degree in a discipline that you enjoy and can get a job in to support yourself. Absolutely do not put all your eggs in the aviation basket. Even if money and time weren't a factor getting your ratings and getting a real pilot job, remember your only one FAA physical away from your aviation career coming to an abrupt end.

 

[epic!]

Hey guys,

Any advice you all can offer will be greatly appreciated.

I'm a sophomore undergraduate student at the University of Texas in Austin, majoring in Philosophy and Plan II Honors (its an honors liberal arts degree basically...a lesser known program, but very competitive...visit the UT website if you're interested in learning more). I've wanted to fly my whole life, but gave up on the idea my senior year of high school when I decided I didn't want to go to the Air Force Academy and I learned of how difficult it was for my Dad to work his way into an Airline Position 25 years ago.

Now, I've decided that since aviation is still the only thing I've ever wanted to do for a living, I'm going to do it despite the challenges and "tricky" market (a term I use loosely to encompass the varying posts of read, some of which told of nightmares in the market today, others describing dreams come true).

Apart from currently working on my Private Pilot Certification, flying on a ton of American Airlines Flights (since Dad's a pilot, flying is super cheap until I graduate), and researching planes my entire life, I don't have any flight-specific training, certifications, or hours.

The plan I've come up with is to stick around at the university for another two years to finish up my B.A. (I've only got about 40 hours remaining after this semester for my B.A., so I'll either get a serious job or take as much math/physics/aerospace as I can before graduating), get as many certifications/ratings as time/money will allow for during that time (though until I get a better job, I'll only have about $15-20,000 left after I get my Private, so loans might have to play a factor), then hopefully come out flying the odd jobs to build hours fast so I can be hired by a regional carrier.

I don't really know how I'm going to afford all of this. Can anyone offer any advice? I've read a few ideas such as washing airplanes for flight time. It seems like the best way is to just start meeting a lot of people, especially those who happen to have enough money to own airplanes. I've also looked for some scholarships without a whole lot of luck, but I haven't searched too deeply yet.

Would anyone recommend a military route? I'm tossing around the idea of going through the Air National Guard since I don't think I sign my soul over to them, unlike I would have at the Academy.

My Dad took two years off from school to get a 2-year aviation degree. I'd prefer to avoid that, but woud anyone recommend that route, or any specific 2-year programs?

Please, do not post any replies to the tune of "Oh you're getting your degree? Good! Forget about aviation because the market sucks!" I'm well aware that the industry is not as glamorous as most people think, and I'm well aware of the challenges that await before I even get into the industry.

Any other advice will be warmly welcomed though.

Thanks,

Mike

hey mike im in a similar boat as you, im a sophmore at the univeristy of north carolina at charlotte studying business. anyways theres a lot of helpful info in a thread i made a while back in the training section entitled 'best way to build hours' theres a lot of good advice in there. go check it out, best of luck to you

 

[RockbrigadePC1]

UNC rocks...

epic,

Are you going to continue your education or stop with your BS?

 

[pilotyip]

This subject has been gone over a bunch of times; you can do a search. Remember you do not join the military service to fly, you join to serve your country to fulfill the needs of the President by flying. You serve at the pleasure of the President. You will not fly that much in the Military unless you go to a conflict, Although Army WO's does stay in the cockpit more than any other service, and there is tons of office duties and family separation. In 11 years of Navy Active duty I got 2500 hours, 800 in 6 months during Vietnam, then averaged under 200 hrs a year. I was gone from home for nearly 4 years. Saw my son for about 11 months between his birth, which I almost missed, and his third birthday. If you go into fly, you will have a 10-11 year obligation, which as an officer will include at least 3-4 years of not flying and doing office duties, or standing phone watches at a command center evening and weekends. It is not a lot of flying. Flying is still a great career and you can make it if you want to.

 

[epic!]

UNC rocks...

epic,

Are you going to continue your education or stop with your BS?

im going to stop once i get my BS, i have no need to get my masters

 

[Slice121]

Go to med school, make lots o money, and buy you own plane!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

If your dad is an AA pilot tell the cheapskate to help you out. You need money and lots of it. That's what fathers are for, to educated their children. If this really is your dream, go for it and ask for help. It's very difficult to do it your self, without financial help. Tell him you'll pay him back. Right.

The previous posts about the military are right on. Listen to these men. They know what they're talking about.

 

[Alex429595]

Theres always the option of transferring to an ERAU or UND type school, and taking out loans to pay for it. You can finish up your credit hours, get a degree in aviation, and work on your ratings through MEI.

 

[SBD]

Like others have said, finish your degree!!!! I got my degree in '98 and worked the typical 9 to 5 for a few years. Bored out of my mind I decided to get into aviation. An education in something non-aviation related is a real bonus. Do your research and choose a flight school that will best suit you. The flight academies are overpriced but provide excellent training. A FBO is cheaper but make sure you are happy if you choose that route. You can get excellent flight training at an FBO. The degree is something to fall back on if you loose interest in aviation or get the pink slip at an airline. I hope this helps.

 

[SBD]

Also if you have the oppurtunity for Uncle Sam to pay for it, do it!

 

[mhcasey]

To all who have replied,

Thanks a million for all of the info. These posts have already been a huge help. For now, I'm going to try to finish up my undergrad work, and just decided to add a business minor to help me get the 8-5 job I'll probably hate that will pay for me to get ratings and what not (a bit of joking there).

Thanks especially to you Navy guys. I guess it just hadn't dawned on me that I probably wouldn't just get to fly F-15's all day everyday. I'm still considering the Air National Guard, but I'm probably going to see if I can go the civilian route first. Rest assured I would not join simply to get my flying paid for - aside from the oppurtunity to fly some really cool planes, I think it would be awesome to be on the ready to defend America should the need ever arise (I acknowledge that that is a way oversimplified idea of what the Air National Guard is).

About my "cheapskate" dad...I guess I should have made clear that he is paying for my college education, including living expenses until I graduate, as well as my private pilot license, and helps out here and there with my various really expensive hobbies here at school (ice hockey, cycling, etc.). He's provided me with plenty and then some, so don't consider him a "cheapskate." Keep in mind, even the senior AA pilots aren't making what they did pre-9/11 either. My Dad is being tossed around between flying a line and reserves. However, I'm sure if I ever run into trouble, he'll be there to help out. I think he wants me to pay for everything post-private license to insure that it's something I'm really dedicated to, and I want to pay for it inasmuch as I can to prove to myself the same thing.

I'll keep you guys posted on my progress, and hope you all will continue to help me out as I go. I know there have been similar posts in the past; I just threw this one out there in case anyone had any recommendations especially specific to my case. I'll continue to search the forums for more info.

Thanks again everyone. Please continue to post if you can think of anything else that might be helpful for me.

 

[mhcasey]

OK here's an update...

Having read your responses and talked to a few young pilots out there, I am thouroughly convinced that I need to finish up this undergrad degree, and make it my number one priority. Fortunately, I was looking at the courses I've taken vs. courses I still need to take, and it looks like I'm going to be able to take 12 hours of classes each semester my junior year, and then just write a thesis for the honors program I'm in my senior year, and I'll be done with a double major in Plan II Honors (reminder - it's a UT specific and really cool program) and Philosophy, with history and business minors. I'm considering just finishing up the thesis my second semester next year so I can be out of here in 3 years, but more than likely I'll just stretch out the courseload a bit and take a few random classes my senior year while writing the thesis. My thinking is that if I can stick around for 2 more years instead of just 1, that's an additional year of living on Dad's health insurance and flying (as a passenger) for close to nothing with American. I figure I can take a few days of classes a week, and on my days off I'll head to the airport and work my way towards CFI, which hopefully I'll have by the end of my junior year so that I can instruct a ton during the summer and through my senior year, hopefully building enough time to at least be well on my way to getting that low paying regional job I've always dreamed of ; ) Somewhere in there I'll get a good job so that I can pay as I go instead of falling into debt.

In all likelihood, I won't be ready for the regionals right out of school (correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems near impossible), so maybe I'll get my teaching certificate or get some other job to pay for the rest of my training/hours and maybe even a family, though I haven't yet found the lucky lady...

My private training is going really well. The first flight was a bit stressful, but now everytime up I feel great.

I heard from a good friend from high school recently who got his Private License just for kicks. Apparently, his Dad also got his private just for kicks, and ended up buying a Cessna 182. I'm thinking next summer I might go back home to DFW and fly that thing is much as possible, and hopefully be a CFI up there for the summer. There is an additional rating I need to get to fly the 182 though, correct?

As far as other hours...I know this is probably in other posts, but with the regionals in mind, what kind of flying do I really need to be doing beyond the hours I'll pick up getting to my CFI? How many hours of multi engine will I need? How many hours of flying aerobatic or gliders would apply towards getting hired by a regional (I'm planning on doing both regardless of how many hours I can check off on a regional application, I'm just curious as to how many hours I will actually be able to check off). Do you guys recommend doing some tailwheel training at some point also?

I'm starting to volunteer to clean airplanes in hopes that I can fly them for cheap. Eventually, would you all recommend getting a line job fueling planes or anything like that? I figure something along those lines will keep me at the airport which will hopefully help me get my foot in the door with whoever is around. I guess I'll have to wait to see if I'm a CFI and a full time student (have to stay full time - I think 9hrs/semester - to have health insurance) if I'll have time to work at the airport too, but it seems like it's been done by mostly everyone here.

Dad's out asking around I'm sure, but I haven't had a chance to talk to him much lately because he's (fortunately) been flying a lot and doing tons of home improvement projects because my folks are selling our house to move into something smaller with cheaper taxes and hopefully no mortgage. I'm heading home for Easter in a few weeks, so I'm sure we'll talk a lot more about it then. He's always wanted me to get the degree first and then worry about flying, which I guess has turned out to be great advice.

Alright I need to get back to the Jep book and get some rest. I'll check in later when I've got news to report.

Thanks again to everyone!