College not necessary

[pilotyip]

It had been said on this board that a 4yr degree makes you a better candidate. Better candidate for what? The major job? there is so much more to a flying career than the major. Many major's don't care about your degree, and a soon to be major, Jet Blue doesn't even ask about college in thier interview. As oppossed to UAL who asks "Why did you get a "C" in diffy Q in the spring of 1963?"? Besides majors will not hire again until 2007 and the mil guys will have front of the line priveldges. Potential career pilots might be better off building time early and getting expereince in turbin equipment. As stated before, Is being 23 with 3000 hours and 1000 turbin PIC going to enhance your career better than a 4 year degree and 300+ hr with a CFI? Also as stated before, we have had pilots leave us without even a 2 yr degree and they are Captains at passenger nationals before age 30, have they failed in there aviation career becasue they don't have a 4yr degree. This board has a heavy bias to the 4 yr degree, because most people have one and feel thier chosen path defines the proper path. I am saying there other ways to be a success in avaition. The degree had nothing to do with being a good pilot, WWII, the Amry pilot in Viet Nam are ample proof of this. I have a 4 yr degree and a masters, but I have missed the boat in my avaiton career by the defination of this board, 11 jobs in 25 yrs, never have made 100K/yr, but I have had a ball and would change very little of what I have done.

 

[sydeseet]

And???????????

A degree isn't about a piece of paper. It's about an education, which is good for anyone regardless of their career aspirations. Besides, I wouldn't trade those 5 years of college for anything. Oh to be 18-23 again with that lifestyle.........

However, what does a "degree" say about a person? How about yes, I can handle deadlines, multi-tasking, odd hours, team work, division of responsibility, juggling 6 balls, setting and completing goals, social interaction, AND a high level of alchohol tolerance (at least in my case), which is a good thing in this game (again, at least in my case.)

 

[350DRIVER]

yip-
Really good questions and I would have to say that it all depends on each individuals certain situation (s). Obviously the more diversified one can be then the more "competitive" they will be when it comes time to go to that major. Is having a college degree a must?, probably not however with today's market it does appear that it would be very difficult to jump past the many other candidates for a job without one. Having a degree won't make you fly any better b u t it will make you "look" better on paper.

3 5 0

 

[justApilot]

Look, when comparing apples to apples the 4 year degree will make the difference be it corporate or the airlines. There is not going to be any "real" hiring in many years to come, so why not go the extra mile and get your 4 year degree? Embry-Riddle along with many other aviation schools have online or extended campus programs.

 

[bozz66]

"Embry-Riddle along with many other aviation schools have online or extended campus programs."


That's what I'm doing. I'm enrolled with the distance learning program for a B.S. in Professional Aeronautics. So far it's great and allows me to keep my present flying job. I'm really doing this degree because I want to better myself and I love aviation. If I get a great job because of it someday, then great, but that's not the only reason. I just wish I made this decision 15 years ago

 

[Goffer]

Yeah, don't go. In these extremely competitive times, the more people that think like you the better off I'll be.

S.

 

[Beechnut]

Sorry Goffer. That last post should have been from Beechnut.

S.

 

[inline]

And???????????However, what does a "degree" say about a person? How about yes, I can handle deadlines, multi-tasking, odd hours, team work, division of responsibility, juggling 6 balls, setting and completing goals, social interaction, AND a high level of alchohol tolerance (at least in my case), which is a good thing in this game (again, at least in my case.)

Isn't this what your college profs told you to justify their paycheck? We're making way more of this flying business than it is; we operate machines. Do any other skilled professionals like engineers,architects,cpa's, to name a few, have to go out and aquire say a couple of thousand hours of high performance flight time and earn 3 or 4 type ratings to ENGAGE in their line of work?

There have been other posts on this subject saying that the degree will enable you to have"something to fall back on," oh yea , I'll bet that 4 year degree from Embry Riddle in aviation science with courses like"survey of aviation safety" and other mumbojumbo courses will put you at the front of the pack for that coveted non-flying job. This degree and .75 cents will buy you a cup of coffee.

If you have a 4 year degree you've worked hard to earn it. But this doesn't make you a better pilot or better pilot canditate.

 

[SpiderMan]

Its not rocket science.

 

[Draginass]

I agree. No need for college at all. Someone needs to fly the checks at night for a career at $15 an hour. That makes less competition for the good paying jobs by people with common sense. I guess the natural selection process works in aviation too.

 

[Brett Hull]

No 4 year degree here (but I'm working on it), I also don't have any messages on the answering machine for an interview with frickin' Comair, Air Wiskey, TSA, Flexjet, etc... either - and I've got a decent amount of turbine and turbine pic time. Be nice to know if I'd get a call if I had one.

 

[bobbysamd]

Degree

The degree signifies a certain amount of sophistication and education, not to mention how it evidences your ability to study and handle academics. It is a barometer of potential. The majors hire potential. Your degree idocuments that you have at least the minimal amount of potential they want.

You've heard all that before . . . .

As a practical matter, hiring at the majors is skewed in favor of applicants who have the degree. Airline hiring is, what is the word I want, uh, um, competitive?? You have little control over the savants who do the hiring at the airlines but you do have control over the credentials that you submit. The long and short of it is give 'em what them want.

PS-Why did this debate start up again?

 

[pilotyip]

Captain at AirTran Spirit

Those pilots who came and applied at USA Jet 4-5 years ago with 2500 hours at age 23-24, made Jet Captain in one year, built up a 1,000 hours jet PIC, went on to the national level and have good careers are ahead of those who spent four years in college and don't have decent flying jobs right now, there is more than one way to get into aviation and again the bias of this board toward the only way, is the way the presenter thinks is right.
In fact we had non-college guys get hired out of here at a couple of the top 4 majors. Quality Jet Part 121 PIC counts for alot on the application. All the reasons listed here for colleege are correct. it is fun, you learn things, and you have paper to hang onthe wall. Is someone going to tell me those guys who made it to AirTran and Spirit without degrees are bottom feeders in the big picture of aviation. Good degree, like accounting , engineering, etc. from a good university does give you something to fall back on, like I became a school teacher between jobs, but alot of the degrees I see on applications have no fall back value unless you are going to run an FBO.

 

[DoinTime]

Pilotyip...
You speak of the exceptions and not the rule. I know of several people that have been hired at majors without a four year degree, but for every one of them I know 10 others that got hired with the degree. Statistics clearly show that over 90% of hired applicants at majors had at least the four year degree. Do you want to be that one in ten even before you get the interview?

As far as a residual value of a aviation based degree outside of aviation goes, most other career feilds are just as much of a "check the box" mentality as airlines are. My sister has a B.S. in geography. She manages a medical clinic....go figure.

 

[Fr8Dog]

pilotyip, I think I am about the only one here who agrees with you! I get a lot of remarks from other people who I know including my parents for that matter telling me that I need to get that degree and that if I don't I won't go anywhere. I am very happy with my decision to go get a job instead of going to school right away. Eventually I will do my degree online just so I can say I have it, and because it would give me something to do while I sit over in YIP or somewhere else for hours trying to get a back haul. The way I look at it right now I would be in my junior year of College probably flight instructing, instead of being 20 years old and having 2800TT, 1500 Multi, 350 Multi Turbine PIC having a ball flying and making almost 40k a year. Oh and the best part of my day is when I get to talk to the lovely women over at Active Aero.

 

[banned username 2]

I AGREE!!!! No new pilots should go to college!

(Might as well reduce the competition out there!)

I personally would recommend college for EVERYONE graduating High School... but hey, I think knowledge is power... knoledge is something that can't be taken away.... but what do I know, I went to college....

 

[fletch717]

It's all about being in the right place at the right time period.

I'm living proof.

Fletch

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

I'm getting my degree from UVSC. But, I'm going to be looking for a regional job with just my Associates, and keep working on my BA online.

 

[NYRANGERS]

I AGREE!!!! No new pilots should go to college!

(Might as well reduce the competition out there!)

I personally would recommend college for EVERYONE graduating High School... but hey, I think knowledge is power... knoledge is something that can't be taken away.... but what do I know, I went to college....

This post is right on. You may not need a college degree to fly an airplane, but take it from me.....You may need one when you get furloughed or God forbid worse.

IMHO... One should get a degree in something other than aviation. Many of my furloughed friends are working very good jobs because of their degrees(non flying).

It is a great safety net. I myself have the most usless degree there is.. Aeronautical Science.

Go to college

Rangers 3 Penguins 1

 

[V-1]

Re: Degree

The degree signifies a certain amount of sophistication and education

I laughed my a55 off when I read this. My sister has three...that's right three Bachelor's degrees (criminal justice, psychology, & human resource management) and lives in a trailer park!

There are as many routes to a flying job, any flying job, as there are pilots. I was hired at a regional with significant flight experience, an associates degree, and a great attitude. The Bachelor's degree is in progress.

With credible online programs becoming more and more available, the choice doesn't have to be work v. education. The education can be attained anywhere, including any backwoods FBO a charter customer wants to fly. The choice then becomes education v. reading whatever old magazines are laying around, watching Fox News, taking a nap, playing Grand Theft Auto on the PlayStation, watching Survivor, arguing in internet chat rooms, etc.

What amazes me is why anyone in our society would choose not to increase their education level, regardless of how much it increases ones' competitiveness in the job market.

Doesn't this sound absurd?

"Billy, you can choose education or ignorance. Neither option will increase your earning potential. Which would you prefer?"

"I'd like to remain ignorant, sir."

Education has value beyond a paycheck.

 

[dogg]

I think "Yip's" point should be looked at a little closer. To go to college to get a degree so that you can get hired at a major really is a complete waste of time. If you are going to go to college, get a degree that you can actually use out in the real world. Don't bother with the Riddle/UND type basket weaving degrees.
It seems that almost all colleges and universities now have degree programs that allow partial class attendance and online course work and they are not life experience degrees. I don't think that the proliferation of alternate- class programs is about helping people to become educated, it is about money. The big schools are looking for revenue where ever they can find it and allowing distance learning is just one way to get it. So it is easier today than ever before to get a real degree from a real college and still work as a pilot.
On the other hand, for the pilot at 35 with a log book full of turbine pic, an accredited life experience type degree might just be the ticket......

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Bozz66,

can you give a little more info on the distance learning program.
How much time to you have to be online working on it?
How do you take exams?
About how much does it cost?

I am interested in using it to finish my degree. I went to college for 3 1/2 years, then left to go to training for my current job. Since my schedule is pretty crazy flying 135, I havn't been able to finish and I only have about two semesters left to go.

I'm going to UVSC which has a online degree program. This semester I'm taking 6 hours online, and 8 hours at the College. I find that online courses enable you to have more time to fly. Here is a link, hope this helps.
http://uvscaviation.com/index.php

Another http://www.aviationuniversity.net/

 

[bozz66]

Deftone45075,

This online class is the first one I've ever taken. At the suggestion of the counseler, I'm only taking one class this term ( about 12 weeks ) just to get used to doing it online. The time online is next to nothing. You really work at your own pace. The course is broken down into modules ( about 2-3 chapters per module ). You download the modules from the course webpage, which are usually in Word format. Then you just print them out. The modules contain exercises and a self test. The self test is really your homework. When done with the self test you email the instructor with your answers. They are multiple choice, so you just give the letter for the answer. There is a mid-term and a final exam they mail out. It is actually mailed to a proctor of your choice, and you just call the proctor up when you're ready to take it. I've already taken the mid-term and suprised myself by passing it Online you keep in touch with the instructor and other students by a bulletin board. There are some chat rooms but I've never seen anybody on there. The course runs about $550 and the text book was around $50. The hardest part so far was the enrollment process. It was kind of a nightmare due to vague instructions on where to send the application and application fee ( think that was $30 ). If you already have 3.5 years under your belt, you could knock this out pretty quick. I've really enjoyed it so far. I've got the trig and calculus courses coming up pretty soon, so the enjoyment may not last for long

Hope this helps!

 

[knelson]

Online Degree

As far as these technological marvels are concerned, I am ignorant, or maybe just uninformed. I am under the impression that several of these "distance learning" programs (excelsior, TESC, etc. . . ) you actually must enroll in a class in a local college and receive your credit by submitting the completion certificate or testing out of a class with the college you are receiving your degree from. I don't see how this is an advantage over actually going to a local university. I would like to get some more information on the ERAU distance learning program types that are completely done online. If you have such information, could someone pm me with such details? Thanks for your info.

Kevin

 

[QuietBirdMan]

Just my 2 euro cents, but on the east side of the pond most people who are driving large iron don't have degrees. If I ever decided to go work in the US again I'd probably have to go get one. However, what does it really prove?
I have seen plenty of 20 and 21 year old kids fresh out of the academy starting as 2nd officers on the MD11 or 744 with no degree and doing fine. Would a degree in English, History or even professional aeronautics matter when it comes to passing initial, indoc, IOE and a type rating course?
Of course, anyone who survives these lousy JAA exams probably has the same study habits as a college student!

Edited for spelling (Even If I went to college they couldn't fix that!)

 

[bobbysamd]

European pilots

Just my 2 euro cents, but on the east side of the pond most people who are driving large iron dont have degrees . . . . . .
I have seen plenty of 20 and 21 year old kids fresh out of the academy starting as 2nd officers on the MD11 or 744 with no degree and doing fine . . . . .

Just a question: Aren't a large percentage of these folks in question hired and trained by the airline at its expense? It's a different culture over there. The selection process and hiring mentality is different. European airline training programs are much more formal and structured than even the strictest programs here. Airline pilots and flight instructors are held in higher esteem than here. The academics, training and testing may be equal to college-level work here, and earning ratings at a European airline is up there with earning a degree.

I trained Alitialia students when I worked at FlightSafety in Vero. I don't recall all of their backgrounds, but the two who comprised my first crew both went to college; one had a degree in economics and the other was a lawyer.