Colgan vs allegheny

[BRA]

There is a lot of complaining about colgan....work rules, schedules, no per diem. I am guilty of it too. Basically we want colgan to be allegheny. What i think is a sleeper topic on these boards is that colgan growth is coming from flying routes that allegheny used to fly. ROC-LGA, BUF-ALB, SYR-LGA, SYR-BDL? Why do this?...allegheny was far better then colgan....dashs were far superior to the saab. It has an APU, bigger cabin, a few more seats, much quieter. How could replacing an APU aircraft with one without an APU in the northeast please your passengers??? Allegheny crews were far more experienced than colgan crews, both pilots and FA's. Exactly half of colgans list of 200 pilots have less then 2 years seniority. Allengeny was better in every aspect except they had a good contract. Colgan has no contract. We are much cheaper. I am suprised colgan doesn't take more heat on these boards about this. Allegheny pilots don't seem to bash us. May be they have more class? The bashing always seems to be towards mesa and CHQ. May be because people just don't care to talk about props? At this point...is it safe to say that more of the regional pilots on these boards are flying jets then props?? May be colgan doesn't take the heat mesa does because we never voted on being so cheap. Our owner isn't as aggressive as mesas? If we ever did get jets i bet people would become a lot more interested. At one time mesa and CHQ had no jets. The reason colgan is growing and allegheny is shrinking is because of these recent colgan topics about colgan having crappy pay and what not. You just can't have it both ways anymore.

 

[WSurf]

Yea, your pretty much right on the target my friend!!!

 

[toa2mdt]

thanks

Thanks for the respect, i dont know why we are going away either. its ok, im sick of ROC, BUF and ALB anyway.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>Allegheny pilots don't seem to bash us. May be they have more class?<<<

Hardly. There just doesn't seem to be a large contingent of ALG pilots on these boards, at least not that I have seen.

In the "real world", however, they are not above bashing. They bash anyone flying USAirways colors that isn't a WO, and do it often and with more venom than I can quite comprehend.

Your self-loathing, however, is quite interesting to read. You practially trip over yourself praising ALG and take a whiz all over yourself, your company, your planes, your coworkers, etc... Show some SELF-respect, man!

Or... Did you forget to log off on an overnight and someone posted this "for you"?

 

[Dash8]

There are quite a few of us alg'ers on this board, and nobody's perfect IP, i've heard the contractors complain/besmearch us at least as much as the other way around.
You forget it's OUR company, and yet somehow we become the victims in most situations (mostly crystal city i know, but you can't deny that the availability of undercutting doesn't affect their decisions)
You are not in our situation IP, so obviously you can't comprehend our disdain for contract companies (not so much the crews persay, I've met good people at most of them and even have a good friend from college thats at mesa). So don't go pattin your back to vigorously from your perch on that high horse.
If i'm not mistaken, your at mesa? I'm surprised that, considering the abuse that you people regularly recieve, you wouldn't be more sympathetic to our plight. The mesa people exuded vitriol endlessly for the whole freedom situation (which was inherently wrong, I agree with that) but, and heres the catcher, MAG is essentially the same as freedom to wholly owneds, ironic, don'tcha think?

Bra,
thanks for the compliments, if you've been under airways umbrella for long enough you'd know they they (crystal city) excel at making illogical business/operational decisions,
I think colgan does serve a purpose for some of our former routes (anything to BDL), and even for some we have now (SYR-BOS-SYR which hardly ever has enough people on both legs, to fill up one leg)

lets face it, the airline industry just plain sucks, no two ways about it....
if i could find another job flying, making at least the money i'm making now(with a few other minor qol considerations, which is what really matters, QOL), i'd gladly offer my current position up to any of you.

>>>Allegheny pilots don't seem to bash us. May be they have more class?<<<

Hardly. There just doesn't seem to be a large contingent of ALG pilots on these boards, at least not that I have seen.

In the "real world", however, they are not above bashing. They bash anyone flying USAirways colors that isn't a WO, and do it often and with more venom than I can quite comprehend.

Your self-loathing, however, is quite interesting to read. You practially trip over yourself praising ALG and take a whiz all over yourself, your company, your planes, your coworkers, etc... Show some SELF-respect, man!

Or... Did you forget to log off on an overnight and someone posted this "for you"?

 

[climbhappy]

quote: Alleghany crews are far more experienced than colgan crews( pilots and FAs)


Bra:

Aren't you reaching with that one. How could you know. we hand flew approaches in the beech. the dash has an autopilot.


you might want to retract that one!

why are you so self-deprecating with your remarks. In my humble opinion this topic will continue to be a sleeper because nobody really cares. US airs woes are too well known. the case is moot!

 

[BRA]

I'm not retracting any of it. How many sub 1000 hour FO's does allegheny have? How many sub 2 year seniority FO's does allegheny have? How many captains at allegheny have been on the seniority list less then 4 years? There is a lot more to the big picture then flying approaches. At this level everyone should be able to do that. I'm not pissing all over myself...i am just posting different takes on things. I don't have a problem with our pilots at all.....i said alleghenys were more experienced. Even people posting the most innocent questions get torn up by dudes with a man faced dog avitar as of late. This $hits gotta stop.

 

[eightdriver]

Bra is right. ALG and PDT crews on average have far more experience than most other regionals. Not to say that means anything, but his statement is true.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>So don't go pattin your back to vigorously from your perch on that high horse. <<<

MY high horse? Oh, it just keeps getting better.

"Your company"? Right. It is. YOUR COMPANY FARMED OUT THE FLYING. Blaming the people that bid on the flying and are doing the flying is a dead-end street. You even admit that you have "disdain" for the contractors, which pretty well agrees with my point... That you are not the "above it all and classy and never bashing the contractors" that this guy "BRA" would have us believe.

>>>you wouldn't be more sympathetic to our plight.<<<

And to top it off, you assume I have no sympathy. I have a great amount of sympathy, actually, but I will not allow that sympathy to translate into nodding vigorously at the ridiculous assertion that ALG pilots are "above" bashing contractors, or as BRA put it:

>>>Allegheny pilots don't seem to bash us. May be they have more class?<<<

I say again: Hardly.

Please point out where it is that I bashed you or ALG in my previous post. I stated that which is what I believe to be a fact, and your post backed it up (remember "disdain"? Your word, not mine).

And still on the sympathy tip, sympathy erodes quickly when your sympathy is repaid with "you guys are stealing our flying" over a period of years. Sure, we aren't in "your situation", but guess what, YOU aren't in "OUR" situation, having to hear it over and over and over and over and over about how badly you suck, how you're a whore, how you are lower than pond scum. If you want sympathy, you have to show that it's a two-way street, friend. The "victim" act got old years ago.

Do you think I wake up every morning and gaze out my window at a new morning thinking "Boy, I sure hope I can cost an Allegheny pilot his job this week"?? Or maybe, "I sure am pleased that my lower pay is responsible for Allegheny pilots' woes"? C'mon now, I go to work and I fly an airplane. If your company chooses to contract work out to us, well, then that's your company's doing, not MINE. I and just about every contract carrier pilot (with the obvious exception of BRA) is tired of hearing about how our gain is your loss. You are not martyrs and we are not Judas. Lighten up on US and you'll find more of that "sympathy" you refer to.

And you're wrong on the Mesa theory, I work for Shuttle America (*already gearing up for the backlash on THAT one*). Just to show you that there's no winning, I relate to you the following... When we first started showing up in PIT, we got an earful from PSA in specific about how we were "stealing their flying". Now that we're leaving the USAirways flying behind and going over to United, now the brouhaha is "G** D*** Shuttle America, they're leaving so now we have to keep flying these f****** Dorniers". So... We're in the system and we're the bad guys. Now we're LEAVING the system, and guess what, we're STILL the bad guys.

You see, Dash8, how this can get old?

And BRA wrote:

>>>Even people posting the most innocent questions get torn up by dudes with a man faced dog avitar as of late. This $hits gotta stop.<<<

You call that first post "an innocent question"? You fairly well, umm, "tore" up your own company. I doubt you would find a lemming-like following in one of your crew rooms if you spouted aloud what you just wrote. Ironically, you are peeved at me for defending YOUR company.

Read it again, man. And if you REALLY feel this way about Colgan, you might want to send out your resume. If you're not happy with your lot in life, do something to make it better.

Or is that "tearing you up"? I think you're just being oversensitive. I think maybe some of your coworkers would agree. Most, even. Read my post closely and please relate to me the horrible things I said about you, except to refer to your obvious self-loathing (which at least one other reader has noticed, as well, so it's not just ME).

 

[climbhappy]

Bra: you said they were FAR more experienced.

taken in the context you wrote it. did you mean colgan was less safe. or let's assume speaking strictly on number of flight hours 121, that alleghany has more avg time as a crew. Does that mean colgan doesn't deserve the flying? or are the passengers getting slighted by not having a Alg crew on the syr-bos run for example?

i'm trying to measure the relationship of your statements to support your main premise.

you said" Basically we want colgan to be alleghany!" also "why do this?" So, all this stuff about flight hours somehow supports the notion that alg should be flying other than colgan.

is this your argument? i think it has more to do with a struggling mainline wanting to park old dash 100s and can't get financing to replace them. that's what happen here. and oh yeah, they gave what little resources they had to another WO. PSA.

did i miss your point?

 

[BRA]

climbhappy- it was more of a "if it's not broken...why did they fix it?" take. My take is that money was the big factor in why they changed out the carriers on the routes. I'm not saying colgan can't do the job....i was just supporting my take that their wasn't anything wrong with allegheny. The longer the crew has been around.....the better they are with the big picture. Including dealing with the passengers. Just like i didn't say the saab was a death ride....i just meant the dash 8 was better for the job.

Man faced dog avitar dude thinks i wrote..."fact is allegheny pilots are a class act, and they outclass everyone else on these boards" No, this is not what i said.....i phrased it as a question. So you can give me your takes on it. I realize that thoughts on these boards get interpreted differently then face to face conversation. I get all that. What i don't get is why people are so quick to go in for the kill. I can't say that take in my own crew room?????????? Dude the typical conversation in a colgan crew room is far worse, and more detailed then that. Let me post some typical quotes out of colgan crew rooms:

" C-model again, what the f*ck??"
"D-models are POS's too, C-models just make them look good"
"when is your mesa interview?"
"his resignation letter looked like it was written with a crayon"
"dude i am calling in sick my last day, they can't do anything can they?"
"when is your TSA interview?"
"how do the passengers put up with this crap"
"we are going to LGA today with no air condtioning, and the vent blowers are inop, this place sucks"
"this place sucks"
"f*ck this place"
"they don't pay for mx cancallations??........f*ck"
"when is your coex interview?"
"great lakes has a denver base, i just need the hours"
"that dude will kill himself and all onboard"
"when is your comair interview?"
"i have my resignation letter written in my head!"
"who just quit?"
"how many quit in the last 2 weeks?"
"the pay for trainers really are leaving like crazy"
"how many street captains are left?"
"do they really go after you if you leave before your 12 month contract is up?"
"how did your american eagle interview go?"
"i heard eagles non rev benifits suck, but what ever.....I AM OUT OF HERE"
"commutair is hiring? hmm"
"i was so close to quiting today"
" the FO got of the saab full of passengers and just walked off the job in LGA....i couldn't believe it"
"i could"
"awesome!!!!!!!!!!!"
"the captian just left a beech in manchester, walked off the job and never came back"
"when is your ASA interview?
"who else left for TSA?"

I could get into the real heavy stuff...but then people names from management would be on here, and also the "**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**" words.

late

 

[Chosen One]

Let me post some typical quotes out of colgan crew rooms:

Ahh, so YOU were the one in the back scribbling furiously into that notebook! Seriously BRA, that was one funny ass post, you hit the nail on the head. Felt just like one of our PIT sit union meetings all over again. I own one of those quotes. Maybe I'll be out TDY your way again soon.

 

[chperplt]

BRA

Keep them coming!!

It's so good to be out of that hell hole!

 

[I.P. Freley]

Bra, again I wonder how you take all of this as "going in for the kill".

But no matter how funny your post about quotes in the crew room may be (and about a quarter of them apply to where I work, too), it doesn't address what you originally said.

Without putting any words in your mouth, I wonder why anyone in one of those crew rooms would agree with you if you sat there and asked aloud:

"Why is colgan growth coming from flying routes that allegheny used to fly? Allegheny was far better then colgan. Dashs were far superior to the saab. It has an APU, bigger cabin, a few more seats, much quieter. Allegheny crews were far more experienced than colgan crews, both pilots and FA's. Allengeny was better in every aspect."

With a minimum of editing, that's the stuff in your orig. post that makes me scratch my head. It reads as if it's from an ALG pilot, not a Colgan pilot (and thus my original question, did you forget to log off on an overnight or something?). You may wonder aloud why it is that USAir will shrink its' WO carriers and expand your flying, but when you wonder in THIS context, you simply invite questions.

If you can't handle the questions, don't post. Remember the free exchange of ideas? You have questions, I have questions... And with all the name-calling going on around here, you should be able to recognize a civil debate as opposed to something that's degenerated into toilet talk. I expect more of you since you have the good sense to quote "Raising Arizona" in your tag line.... Which means that you are a person of great taste.

 

[CitationLover]

PSA used to be a great airline........when it was in California. USAirways has turned it to a dumper.

The WO's b!tch and whine about the "contracted" out flying. Doesn't mainline feel the same way about you guys?

 

[Tony Soprano]

I'm so ashamed

Thanks.... I guess 11000+ hours and 5 years in the left seat of the Slab makes me either a mental case or real loser. Thanks.

BRA...your quotes...sad but true.

 

[climbhappy]

Bra:

i think they fixed it because they couldn't afford to replace the old dash 8 100s and lost several billion the last three years.

they are in danger of not raising financing on the balance of their rj order because their credit rating was just downgraded and they may have sold some longterm bonds that were just downgraded to junk status. this has all been in the press the last several days.

i think it was broken! not fixed. i do understand your point though.

 

[BRA]

I stand by the original post. I think i could make those comments outloud in the crew room. Colgan is a different environment i would say. Perhaps largely because the group of pilots is always changing. With the turn over so high.....you almost have a hard time defending your pilot group if you had to....you know less then 50% of them at any one time. And we only have around 200 total. Also the outstation basing doesn't help either. Colgan is a different animal. You see the same 6 most of the time. It isn't like shuttle, where you have 20 in a crew room. If i piss off the other 3 in a colgan crew room....i might be able to take them. The 20 dudes in a shuttle crew room would be a tall order. How do you know if you pilot group really are arses or not? Not saying we have problems. Just saying the team spirit is about non existent here. Anywho...more classics:

"they made you do what?"
"you flew it where?"
"you flew it like that?"
"you flew it like that or else you would get sim time?"
"you've got to be f*cken kidding me?"
"i've got an air wisconsin interview"
"don't walk away from here, run"
"hey, VCM is MELed"
"hey pressurization is MELed"
"f*cken sh1t!!!!
"last leg and ops says call dispatch when we get on the ground"
"%$#@! *&%^$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"i heard he used to aim for the tower in BOS?"
"sextant?"
"what's that?"
"oh"
"no sh1t!!!!!"
"2000 feet down the runway, with reverse?"
"yeah, he went over to pinnacle"
"why make a lateral move like that?"
"it isn't dude"
"i don't care, i'll mow lawns till i find something"
"i don't care, i'll work at the golf course till the class date"
"i just don't care"
"my wife makes pretty good coin actually"
"no really? can they do anything if you call in sick your last day?"
"my lawyer says that contract can't be enforced"
"my contract is up this winter, i'd pay $2000 not to work here this winter, fine with me"
"I'm gonna work at the outback instead"
"has anyone ever had to pay back their contract?"
"did you see those stickers that were in the mx cans?? said at colgan air we hide more from the FAA by 9am then most carriers do all day"
"that's awesome!!!!!!!!"

 

[Tony Soprano]

LOL!!!!!

Outstanding BRA!!!

Hiding more from the feds by 9AM than all the other airlines combined is more like it.

 

[BRA]

hey i never did get to see it fully.... i only saw what was left after they scratched them off. Many planes still have the left overs though...and you can read most of it.

 

[whiskytangofoxt]

I had the advantage ( disadvantage) of flying for 2 wo's and 1 contract carrier. The people in both places are the same, the treatment at the Wo's was much better, but the pilots and Fa's just trying to pay thier bills and get ahead. Its all a crap shoot in this industry and we all want to get hired somewhere where we can retire or atleast live something that feels like life.
I was very happy at the wo's and not very happy at the contractor, but because of the way the industry has been going that was my only choice, there will always be a lower bidder and there will always be anouther pilot to fill the job, thinking if they put the time in they will get ahead.
Usairways deserves to die, they are always going to pay the lowest bidder, and at the same time they have never giving a crap about the customers.
US airways bussiness plan, build an airline for the least amount possible and people will fly us, if we abuse them enough.