Colgan to being Contract Negotiations

[ex j-41]

And Pilots making less than $20k/year.
ALPA was great at getting airlines and airports to increase safety.
My ALPA dues are worth that. But as far as contracts and the system that they have created? This pay/flight hour is crap. Worst idea ever. Don't know who is responsible for it but it should have stopped long ago.
If colgan has decent pay then Furloughed United Pilot would be working there and i doubt the buffalo accident would have ever happened.
Don't have pilot involved in negotiating is the best answer. And have ONE contract for ALL airlines. ONE pay rate for each airplane type flown in the USA. Every ALPA carrier should have exactly the same pay and duty regs. That will be the fastest way to end the whipsawing.

 

[PCL_128]

How can you say this when you have Mesa with a crap contract and Pinnacle with a crap contract that just TA'd what seems like ANOTHER crap contract?

Professional negotiators work to achieve the goals that you (the MEC) set for them. They don't tell you what to negotiate. If you don't make certain things a priority, then the pro won't get them for you. Don't blame ALPA for the mistakes of individual MECs.

 

[blesko]

Professional negotiators work to achieve the goals that you (the MEC) set for them. They don't tell you what to negotiate. If you don't make certain things a priority, then the pro won't get them for you. Don't blame ALPA for the mistakes of individual MECs.

How did ALPA allow freedom to be represented when they also represent MEsa? Ask a TSA guy who is represented by ALPA how that's working out. ALPA has some pros, but they ultimately stand up for the almighty dollar in their pocket. When did ALPA stand up for the collective 54,000 and say what, this is wrong and is BS!!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

How did ALPA allow freedom to be represented when they also represent MEsa?

What on Earth are you talking about? The Freedom pilots are on the Mesa seniority list, and have been for years now. Prior to that, they were an unrepresented alter-ego carrier. Thanks to ALPA negotiators, Mesa ended up with industry-leading scope that merged the lists.

Ask a TSA guy who is represented by ALPA how that's working out.

Seems to be working well to me. Management keeps firing union reps, and ALPA keeps taking care of them. Soon they'll be released into self help, and ALPA will be there to help and provide strike pay.

ALPA has some pros, but they ultimately stand up for the almighty dollar in their pocket.

This argument never makes any sense. ALPA makes more money when you make more money. Dues revenue is a function of pilot income.

 

[blesko]

What on Earth are you talking about? The Freedom pilots are on the Mesa seniority list, and have been for years now. Prior to that, they were an unrepresented alter-ego carrier. Thanks to ALPA negotiators, Mesa ended up with industry-leading scope that merged the lists.




Seems to be working well to me. Management keeps firing union reps, and ALPA keeps taking care of them. Soon they'll be released into self help, and ALPA will be there to help and provide strike pay.


This argument never makes any sense. ALPA makes more money when you make more money. Dues revenue is a function of pilot income.

Any why would ALPA stand up for something that aided management but yet was detrimental to the pilot groups. How good was the mesa contract that allowed that? ALPA stood up, saw and opportunity for money from freedom pilots and took it, thereby screwing the mesa pilots that were the victim of an alter-ego.

YOUR TSA ALPA BRETHERN ON THE STREET WHEN GOJET IS HIRING???? THATS HOW WELL ITS WORKING FOR YOU? You SELFISH YAMBAG!!!!!


Whats good for DALPA is bad for my company. What's good for my company is bad for DAL. Who's 2% goes farther?

 

[PCL_128]

Any why would ALPA stand up for something that aided management but yet was detrimental to the pilot groups. How good was the mesa contract that allowed that? ALPA stood up, saw and opportunity for money from freedom pilots and took it, thereby screwing the mesa pilots that were the victim of an alter-ego.

A single seniority list was not good for management. The alter ego operation was much better for management, and ALPA stopped it. The rest of the contract was obviously not good as a result, but they had to sacrifice in order to achieve the necessary scope to save their jobs. ALPA handled that situation wonderfully.

YOUR TSA ALPA BRETHERN ON THE STREET WHEN GOJET IS HIRING???? THATS HOW WELL ITS WORKING FOR YOU? You SELFISH YAMBAG!!!!!

Selfish? I've walked the picket line with the TSA pilots. Have you?

Whats good for DALPA is bad for my company. What's good for my company is bad for DAL. Who's 2% goes farther?

That's some awfully simplistic thinking. Why do you believe that what's good for you is bad for DAL and vice-versa? Makes no sense.

 

[Kingzrt]

focus on scope of PNCL will take all your Q-400s

None of the 9E morons want our Q's until Delta kicks them to the curb. Our seniority being merged with theirs, is not because they want our planes they are protecting themselves from disaster. Once Delta realizes they have a group of Short bus retards their routes will be eliminated, which in turn will cause a 9E furlough. That means we will be furloughed. I personally do not want to be associated with 9E or even mentioned in their contract.
This just goes to show that their Negotiating team really didn't have anything else of importance to put in their contract. Focusing on protecting themselves by screwing us is obviously more important than getting better pay, work rules and quality of life.

 

[bluesideup340]

This is a repost from another board but it illustrates ALPA failure as a Union to serve their membership at all carriers including the regionals.
Enjoy.... the post is in regard to the Pinnacle TA

Here it goes:
"Eagle already has most of these provisions (or better) and we get criticized for our "16-year contract" which hasn't done much worse then most everyone else, yet here (with the ability to strike) the bar remains at or below our current CBA..............with both ALPA nationals blessing and apparently this airlines MEC.

It's abundantly clear that if any regional is going to truly change anything an actual strike will have to occur (with its risks). As it stands now, especially with another carrier embracing the dreaded PBS, it looks like the regional industries pilots can expect .50 cents here or there on rates and an hour here or there on scheduling.

In other words, dickering over peanuts.

Not intended as a criticism of Pinnacle in and of itself, as Eagle (and other carriers) will likely repeat this, but I see neither any real compensation package improvements in the regional industry nor any strikes. The best it can hope for (I guess) is more and larger airplanes so pilots can get their improvements that way. This will be bad for mainline pilots as it makes placing larger numbers of larger RJ's at these regional carriers desirable, because there is more profit made. By agreeing to contracts like this, it only strengthens what many pilots here are complaining about, be it mainline pilots losing jobs and expansion/advancement or young regional pilots hoping to one day go to a major that will have less growth because of this.

The Pinnacle MEC did a terrible disservice to its pilots by kicking this rusty can over to the pilot group for consideration and sends a message of spinelessness. Hopefully the pilot group will kick this can right back, but since the current MEC has already shown its lack of courage and fortitude, they'll be picked over by management again unless a new team is then put in place.

This is what occured at Eagle in 1997 when our MEC at that time failed in its responsibility and handed our pilots an inferior contract. The pilots voted it down, but failed to place new leadership at the helm and then that MEC agreed to a few minor improvements and most importantly CHANGED THE REQUIREMENTS for ratification to virtually insure its success. The "new" ratification requirements on the second TA were met with the first rejection, so it was a shoo-in. This made ALPA national happy. In fact, they sent one of their reps to our roadshows for the first TA, touting it as the best thing since sliced bread thus solidifing their lack of concern for many of us.........and that was the FIRST piece of garbage.

DON'T make this same mistake. After you vote this down (hopefully)...........MAKE negotiation team changes as the original team who would agree to this has no credibility left and will be looked at by your management as manipulateable lackeys.

Best of luck."

 

[PCL_128]

Bad example, since that 16-year EGL contract is one of the best in the industry. Seems that they did pretty well to me.

 

[samballs]

Ah yes, training to learn how to BS the pilot group.

They learned to say "we agree with the company that this is the last best offer". Vote it in now and will get flying from xyz. You have no ALPA pilots behind you besides other Colgan pilots, ALPA has created that and that is how it will remain