Colgan Pilots

[Afraid to Fly]

My Colgan peeps. I have enjoyed sharing the cockpit with many of you with my time here. We are a great pilot group, get along well together, know how to fly, and more importantly know how to have fun. We have all endeared the daily way of Colgan doing things, from ferrying airplanes at 2:00AM or taking a taxi from IAD-MNZ ten times a day.

With the sale of our company to Pinnacle, you ALL have to get your heads out of the sand and stop drinking the Kool-aide. We are no longer a family run company, but one of corporate America.

I have seen the cool pilots post here on this board. So I paid ten bucks (which is BS) and decided to be cool.

I love it on how the people think that things are going to be the same at Colgan need a serious adjustment of thinking. It is one thing to sit here and blab about it on a stupid internet forum board and say that it will be the same, but it is time to grow up, stop pretending to play airline pilot in State College, PA or Charley West and understand we are going to go to a hub style of basing as well as OTHER changes. If you honestly think that they are going to keep the outstation basing time to get with the times. What other airlines have our style of basing, with the size of aircraft we have? Come on.

I would love to take a poll of those saying, ‘things won’t change’ and correlate guys and gals saying that to those who thought the Colgans would never sell. GUESS WHAT THEY DID, SO THINGS WILL CHANGE!

How many of you guys at Colgan have taken advanced level MBA courses? How many of you guys have heard of The Prisoner Game Theory? They DO NOT teach you this at Riddle, UVSC, or ATP! Guess what, do a google search of The Prisoner Game Theory and understand how this applies to us. We, at Colgan, as a pilot group, are one of the ‘prisoners’ and the Pinnacle pilot group is the other ‘prisoner’. Mr. Phil has us EXACTLY in this situation. He doesn’t want us to understand this, but I do and know it is NOT good, unless we work together with the PCL pilot group to get our story straight.

Oh guess what Mr. Phil might do as well to Colgan. He MIGHT offer us a better pay scale than those that are currently at PCL to prevent a union. This is a classic move, and if he does so, we are REALLY in trouble.

My fellow Colganites, it is one thing to sit in the crash pad and typing on the internet board how things are going to be great under PCL and how we should wait and see. We are in CASS, get up go to MEM, DTW, or MSP and TALK to Pinnacle pilots, I am sure they would love to talk to us and tell us about the company and what we can expect if we don’t have help. Why don’t you guys who think it is going to be the ‘status quo’ around here put validity behind what you write. You would do so if you find a PCL pilot and discuss with them what is going on.

To the Pinnacle Pilot group, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE educate us at Colgan on why we need a union. Please be patient with us, we have a lot of guys who need to be educated.


No, I am not a rah rah union guy (but we need one SOONER rather than later). I am lucky and have a lot of experience though in WHAT the upper management are doing through ‘games’ from another life. These ‘games’ are well know throughout business school. We are in a classic scenario of this Prisoner Game Theory.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS.

Yes, Colgan in the past has been a place to come, put in our time in, and get out. We are now dealing with corporate America. We can make the new Pinnacle a place to stay for a career with the opportunities we are going to have presented to us. We need to understand though that if we play into the game theory, the way Mr. Phil wants us to, we will not win, nor will the PCL pilots.

 

[Godfather]

Attention Colgan Hommies!!! Plz Read

SORRY TO INTERRUPT THIS BUT BIG NEW BULLETIN....

Peanuckle Colgan Conference call phone # and passcode is up at you know where (c/t)

Calls start at 11:30 and 4:30 Pm today...

NO ONE IS TO POST THE NUMBERS OR PASSCODE ON THIS SITE PERIOD....I MEAN NO ONE....

WILL DISCUSS THIS LATER AFTER THE CALLS.....

BACK TO WORK...PM ME OR CALL ME IF YOU HAVE MY # ABOUT QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS...

 

[Smarta$$]

My Colgan peeps. I have enjoyed sharing the cockpit with many of you with my time here. We are a great pilot group, get along well together, know how to fly, and more importantly know how to have fun. We have all endeared the daily way of Colgan doing things, from ferrying airplanes at 2:00AM or taking a taxi from IAD-MNZ ten times a day.

With the sale of our company to Pinnacle, you ALL have to get your heads out of the sand and stop drinking the Kool-aide. We are no longer a family run company, but one of corporate America.

I have seen the cool pilots post here on this board. So I paid ten bucks (which is BS) and decided to be cool.

I love it on how the people think that things are going to be the same at Colgan need a serious adjustment of thinking. It is one thing to sit here and blab about it on a stupid internet forum board and say that it will be the same, but it is time to grow up, stop pretending to play airline pilot in State College, PA or Charley West and understand we are going to go to a hub style of basing as well as OTHER changes. If you honestly think that they are going to keep the outstation basing time to get with the times. What other airlines have our style of basing, with the size of aircraft we have? Come on.

I would love to take a poll of those saying, ‘things won’t change’ and correlate guys and gals saying that to those who thought the Colgans would never sell. GUESS WHAT THEY DID, SO THINGS WILL CHANGE!

How many of you guys at Colgan have taken advanced level MBA courses? How many of you guys have heard of The Prisoner Game Theory? They DO NOT teach you this at Riddle, UVSC, or ATP! Guess what, do a google search of The Prisoner Game Theory and understand how this applies to us. We, at Colgan, as a pilot group, are one of the ‘prisoners’ and the Pinnacle pilot group is the other ‘prisoner’. Mr. Phil has us EXACTLY in this situation. He doesn’t want us to understand this, but I do and know it is NOT good, unless we work together with the PCL pilot group to get our story straight.

Oh guess what Mr. Phil might do as well to Colgan. He MIGHT offer us a better pay scale than those that are currently at PCL to prevent a union. This is a classic move, and if he does so, we are REALLY in trouble.

My fellow Colganites, it is one thing to sit in the crash pad and typing on the internet board how things are going to be great under PCL and how we should wait and see. We are in CASS, get up go to MEM, DTW, or MSP and TALK to Pinnacle pilots, I am sure they would love to talk to us and tell us about the company and what we can expect if we don’t have help. Why don’t you guys who think it is going to be the ‘status quo’ around here put validity behind what you write. You would do so if you find a PCL pilot and discuss with them what is going on.

To the Pinnacle Pilot group, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE educate us at Colgan on why we need a union. Please be patient with us, we have a lot of guys who need to be educated.


No, I am not a rah rah union guy (but we need one SOONER rather than later). I am lucky and have a lot of experience though in WHAT the upper management are doing through ‘games’ from another life. These ‘games’ are well know throughout business school. We are in a classic scenario of this Prisoner Game Theory.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS.

Yes, Colgan in the past has been a place to come, put in our time in, and get out. We are now dealing with corporate America. We can make the new Pinnacle a place to stay for a career with the opportunities we are going to have presented to us. We need to understand though that if we play into the game theory, the way Mr. Phil wants us to, we will not win, nor will the PCL pilots.

Good post. The only enemy we have lives in Memphis.

 

[Mr Wu]

SORRY TO INTERRUPT THIS BUT BIG NEW BULLETIN....

Peanuckle Colgan Conference call phone # and passcode is up at you know where (c/t)

Calls start at 11:30 and 4:30 Pm today...

NO ONE IS TO POST THE NUMBERS OR PASSCODE ON THIS SITE PERIOD....I MEAN NO ONE....

WILL DISCUSS THIS LATER AFTER THE CALLS.....

BACK TO WORK...PM ME OR CALL ME IF YOU HAVE MY # ABOUT QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS...

Blow me.

 

[Flyer1015]

Wu,

Is that an actual Pinnacle/Colgan mug , or is that photoshop?

 

[Snapshot]

TALK to Pinnacle pilots, I am sure they would love to talk to us and tell us about the company and what we can expect if we don’t have help.

To the Pinnacle Pilot group, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE educate us at Colgan on why we need a union. Please be patient with us, we have a lot of guys who need to be educated.

Best Idea I've heard on here ever. The sooner a delegation from both pilot groups sit down together, the better.

 

[another cfii]

As a fellow 9E brother, first of all, welcome my fellow Colgan brothers. It's gonna be an interesting year for both our workgroups for sure, and most of the important issues are being hammered out as we speak, and most of them under the table. They do this because an ignorant and divided workgroup is a bliss to our mgmt.

But I can tell you this now, our enemy now and in the future is sitting in the palace in MEM, and if we do not unite now, it will make it that easier for them to break us up later. I'm also not a big fan of union, but there are times when a single voice needs to be heard, our union is as good as it comes. We have lots of dedicated volunteers that sometimes I wonder why they give up their precious 10 days off a month to help others in all capacity. And I always remember, the truth lies somewhere between the union and mgmt.

We need to stand together, don't panic in front of a public message board (Uncle Phil, we know you hire someone at $15 bucks an hour to read this, show a unified front, and then, maybe, we may stand a chance with our enemy on Noncaring blvd.

STMD, retro pay till the last day!

 

[b19]

I don't have a horse in this race, just an observer from the outside, but here is my two cents.

Buy and read the following books; Flying the Line I and II, and Hard Landing. They are a well written historical overview of management versus union games. History always repeats itself.

You will spend years avoiding and flying in weather and it is all about experience and judgment. You won't have that same experience in management labor relations, so a good understanding of history will afford you the opportunity to recognize all the traps and problems you will be forced to live with. Bottom line it is your paycheck and quality of life. Talk to everyone and make up your own mind. But be informed. Good luck you are going to need it.

Oh one other thing ask the Pinnacle pilots about their quality of life and their future, you might end up retiring their, most don't make it to the majors- the rj is the new narrowbody.

Good luck.

 

[Joe Schmo]

I wish I could go back in time when regionals were just a stepping stone.

 

[Mr Wu]

Wu,

Is that an actual Pinnacle/Colgan mug , or is that photoshop?

Actual. Came with the T-shirt. Should be waiting for you at your base.

 

[Prop2Jet]

"How many of you guys at Colgan have taken advanced level MBA courses? How many of you guys have heard of The Prisoner Game Theory?"

First just because you have an MBA does not make you a seasoned business strategist who understands the complexities of non-scholarly practices in the real-world environment.

I have a very solid understanding of the GAME THEORY you speak of. ( By the way it was called prisoners dilemma in undergraduate studies to make it seem more simple, the actual name is called game theory; you will learn this when you get your post-graduate degree dealing with advanced topics such as this) Some people on here are not idiots.

The application of this theorem is not suitable for this type of situation. The four outcomes are either status-quo for both applicants or very positive or very negative at the same time for the other applicant based upon the predicted choices made of the other applicant.

In our case people want to keep the companies separate. Thus, the game can't be played as you state since one persons choice does not directly effect the choice/outcome of the others. (YET)

Until it does then why bring out the big guns? Why say unionize? Where is your proof about a hub system? What solid information other than this website supports your claims?

Just because other airlines in the past have followed suit with your theory does not lend credibility to your belief. It is not an accurate predication for what our airline might do in the future. At best, you could postulate that something like this could happen. But until then why fuss?

See the problem is everyone here, including me, has a small piece, of what they believe to be, of the puzzle. They think that if we all join together then we can make sense of the entire design. Herein the problem lies. No one except the upper-level decision makers knows what this design looks like. They have the most puzzle pieces and can make a better judgement of the situation. Us pilots have few if any any legitimate pieces of the puzzle and can't make even a reasonable guess as to its design. We get scared. Our emotional reaction then forces people to try to cope with the situation by acting out irrationally (not having enough info to act rationally).

Such irrationality will at best create little good until we understand more than just the HR-related speeches.

I am not saying that pro-active involvement is bad, just that jumping the gun can lead to many mistakes that might hurt us more.

 

[BirdCatcher]

I am not saying that pro-active involvement is bad, just that jumping the gun can lead to many mistakes that might hurt us more.

What you have to remember if we don't act and change with change we might not be able to help ourselves later because it could be too late. Oh and why do you care anyway, your gonna be gone in 2 years (3 - 1 served)

 

[Prop2Jet]

True! Well might be sooner if we get more routes.
Love the score.
Hey what change have you seen already? I have not seen our bases closed yet, what about you? (3-2)

 

[Cartman's Uncle]

"How many of you guys at Colgan have taken advanced level MBA courses? How many of you guys have heard of The Prisoner Game Theory?"

First just because you have an MBA does not make you a seasoned business strategist who understands the complexities of non-scholarly practices in the real-world environment.

I have a very solid understanding of the GAME THEORY you speak of. ( By the way it was called prisoners dilemma in undergraduate studies to make it seem more simple, the actual name is called game theory; you will learn this when you get your post-graduate degree dealing with advanced topics such as this) Some people on here are not idiots.

The application of this theorem is not suitable for this type of situation. The four outcomes are either status-quo for both applicants or very positive or very negative at the same time for the other applicant based upon the predicted choices made of the other applicant.

In our case people want to keep the companies separate. Thus, the game can't be played as you state since one persons choice does not directly effect the choice/outcome of the others. (YET)

Until it does then why bring out the big guns? Why say unionize? Where is your proof about a hub system? What solid information other than this website supports your claims?

Just because other airlines in the past have followed suit with your theory does not lend credibility to your belief. It is not an accurate predication for what our airline might do in the future. At best, you could postulate that something like this could happen. But until then why fuss?

See the problem is everyone here, including me, has a small piece, of what they believe to be, of the puzzle. They think that if we all join together then we can make sense of the entire design. Herein the problem lies. No one except the upper-level decision makers knows what this design looks like. They have the most puzzle pieces and can make a better judgement of the situation. Us pilots have few if any any legitimate pieces of the puzzle and can't make even a reasonable guess as to its design. We get scared. Our emotional reaction then forces people to try to cope with the situation by acting out irrationally (not having enough info to act rationally).

Such irrationality will at best create little good until we understand more than just the HR-related speeches.

I am not saying that pro-active involvement is bad, just that jumping the gun can lead to many mistakes that might hurt us more.

If you listened to yerterday's conference call maybe you heared that some decisions would have to go through the PCL pilot group. Colgan pilots at this point don't have that.

 

[Prop2Jet]

I did not remember that. Ok. So what decisions do you guys have to make? Are they going to effect Colgan or just you? Are these joint decisions or just your decisions?

 

[BirdCatcher]

Changes are coming, i will bet you a case of beer that within the next 90 days Mike Colgan will no longer be CEO of Colgan. one thing I noticed on the call yesterday is that they don't seem very certain exactly what they are going to do with us yet. Yes, they said they wanted us to grow, ok, that's what every company wants. Yes, they said they wanted 70 seaters. What happens if that doesn't happen? They are doing an aweful lot of talking about bigger turboprops. yet as they said nothing has been "inked". Anyone who has been in this business a while can tell you until it has been "inked" and actually on the ramp it is rumor. I think they are just trying to boost morale and one that rumor won't work the true nature of this deal will come out. But I love being proved wrong.

 

[Prop2Jet]

That is a great set of points. Who really knows what is going to happen. Look at last week we did not know this was coming! I drink Blue Moon, crisp and yet so good!!!
I agree with that change is coming, but who knows what it will be.

 

[BirdCatcher]

That is a great set of points. Who really knows what is going to happen. Look at last week we did not know this was coming! I drink Blue Moon, crisp and yet so good!!!
I agree with that change is coming, but who knows what it will be.

A case of Bud and i'm happy. Your right, who knows that's why we here at Colgan need to come together and look at ALL our options. We need to be ready, a step ahead of the game. We can't fall behind. I am weary (Sp?) of all the talk about 70 seat turboprops yet no deals. Management usually does a good job keeping stuff like that down low for comptetition purposes. Could it be all talk to create a smokescreen?

 

[ATLplt]

I don't know....I heard from a Houston based pilot, who heard from a Tyler based pilot, who heard from a Manassas based pilot, who heard from a certain crew scheduler.....that Colgan already has 10 Q's on order.

Point is, there's going to be a lot of rumors floating around for the next few months with no real progress to speak of. Now's the time for all of you to quit daydreaming and organize something to protect yourselves. Whether it be a national union or in-house, whaterver, just please protect yourselves and listen closely to what each side is saying. It's going to get interesting.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Can I please have my stapler??

 

[BirdCatcher]

Can I please have my stapler??

I'll burn the place down

 

[smartelephant]

if you're going to make your case this strong(and I support you), then use your spell/grammer check. You make us look as ignorant as the people who write our internal memo's.

 

[CoATP]

Case of Beer 9E's internal memos and manuals have worse spelling than yours. The major reason for the buyout was that you have a more reliable spellchecker.

 

[PCL_128]

Buy and read the following books; Flying the Line I and II, and Hard Landing. They are a well written historical overview of management versus union games. History always repeats itself.

In addition to these great books, I would also recommend "Confessions of a Union Buster" by Martin Levitt. Mr. Levitt worked for two decades as a professional union buster for hire. It was his job to go into companies that had employee groups trying to organize and rip the employee groups apart. He resorted to truly horrendous tactics, and countless lives were ruined as a result. He makes it very clear that the tactics he used are almost universal among union busters and union-hating management teams. After Marty's life basically collapsed from years of alcohol abuse, he went into AA and changed his life. As a result, he quite his despicable union busting enterprise and went about rectifying his misdeeds by spreading the word about what union busting is really all about.

When you read this book, you can practically pick out Phil Trenary's quotes from things that Marty said during his union-busting campaigns. In reference to the Pinnacle/Colgan situation, the chapter in the book that deals with a group of nursing home employees organizing is especially relevant. The management of the nursing home opened a new company right next door to the original nursing home. The new home was run by the same management and all of the administrative employees were the same, but it was technically created under a "holding company" that allowed the two homes to appear separate under the law. Slowly, the manager (a minister, no less) started "eliminating positions" at the original nursing home. Big surprise, the same jobs opened at the same time at the new nursing home. Of course, the new nursing home was non-union, and all of the union employees that lost their jobs at the original home had to apply for the new non-union jobs if they wanted to remain employed. The minister knew which employees had been pro-union at the original home, so he simply eliminated their union jobs at the original home and refused to hire them again at the new home. The union was eventually broken, Marty Levitt made $160,000 in less than a year and a half by tearing the employees and their families apart, and the "minister" that ran the homes was able to continue paying his non-union employees minimum wage and treat them like garbage.

Although the exact same situation can't happen here, the idea is still the same: have two companies (one union, and one not) that you can play against one another until you can manipulate the situation enough to break the union. In the end, all of the employees suffer, union and non-union alike. We would all do well to learn from history and take the appropriate action.

 

[Prop2Jet]

I will put stricknine in the water...

 

[CA1900]

if you're going to make your case this strong(and I support you), then use your spell/grammer check. You make us look as ignorant as the people who write our internal memo's.

It never fails...

You get partial credit for avoiding the your/you're screwup.

 

[b19]

Just one more thought as to why this may be important. If the first merger of two majors happens the others will immediately follow suit. And then how many new jobs will be out there, to step up to. The consolodation could have drastic effects on the job market. So you might be in that RJ for a very long time, and until you start demanding narrowbody pay, there will be no need for narrowbodys, just more 70 and 90 seaters at less than city bus driver rates.You may already be living your future. Stay informed and good luck.

 

[Prop2Jet]

we are all doomed. run for Wal mart they are hiring! RUN save yourselves!