Colgan ALPA... Get the cards in NOW!!

[JoeMerchant]

Sorry I was just at another thread where ALPA members were complaining about the excessive managment salaries after the employees made drastic pay cuts in pay and healthcare...

Carry on...

Rez,

Maybe ALPA would have more credibility if DW didn't make $420,000 per year and walked away from ALPA with an ALPA Pension in excess of $100,000 per year. Pot meet kettle......

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm doin' just fine, thanks.

Ahhh... more cheap shots from the ALPA cheerleading section. Anyway back to the much touted ALPA "brand scope". You say it is working out just fine? Looks kinda like the whipsaw is out of control over there.... How do you figure it is working "just fine"..... If that is the best ALPA has to offer for "brand scope", you will have a hard time getting the Colgan and Skywest boys on board.....

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe ALPA would have more credibility if DW didn't make $420,000 per year

As usual, you've clearly displayed your utter ignorance. Captain Woerth never received anything close to $420,000 per year, and Captain Prater isn't either. Maybe you should try learning about ALPA instead of constantly attacking it from a position of extreme ignorance.

 

[PCL_128]

Anyway back to the much touted ALPA "brand scope". You say it is working out just fine? Looks kinda like the whipsaw is out of control over there.... How do you figure it is working "just fine"..... If that is the best ALPA has to offer for "brand scope", you will have a hard time getting the Colgan and Skywest boys on board.....

I just had a meeting with most of the NWA reps last week, and the topic of a PID was discussed. And guess what, Johnny? They were the ones who brought it up! There is significant support for such an idea on the new MEC, and we'll see what happens over the next few years. With McClain gone, I think we'll have much better luck with family scope, provided the Red Tail regional MECs are willing to compromise and share the burden. If we don't make the same mistake that the DCI carriers did (refusal to compromise and share the burden), then I think we'll be able to make some real progress on this. These things take time, John.

 

[JoeMerchant]

As usual, you've clearly displayed your utter ignorance. Captain Woerth never received anything close to $420,000 per year, and Captain Prater isn't either. Maybe you should try learning about ALPA instead of constantly attacking it from a position of extreme ignorance.

Be careful about throwing the ignorance label around. It is you who doesn't seem to know the inner workings of your union that you are a spokesperson for. Here is a link to the actual ALPA officer's compensation:

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/Documents/ALPA Officer Compensation.htm

DW's base compensation was $372,728.00 per year. Add in expenses and it goes up to $502,728.00 per year plus a new Buick Park Avenue. His ALPA pension plan alone is $149,091.20 per year. Tell me PCL128, how many ALPA members make $149,091.20 per year in salary, much less any pension?

Go ahead and look for yourself.... I will await your defense of this salary and pension for the great job he did.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I just had a meeting with most of the NWA reps last week, and the topic of a PID was discussed. And guess what, Johnny? They were the ones who brought it up! There is significant support for such an idea on the new MEC, and we'll see what happens over the next few years. With McClain gone, I think we'll have much better luck with family scope, provided the Red Tail regional MECs are willing to compromise and share the burden. If we don't make the same mistake that the DCI carriers did (refusal to compromise and share the burden), then I think we'll be able to make some real progress on this. These things take time, John.

1. What mistake did ASA and CMR make?

2. What do you mean by "compromise and share the burden"?

3. My understanding is that the NWA MEC just shot down the PID resolution...... comments????

4. How much time do you want? ALPA has been studying the scope problem since 1995.... 12 years isn't long enough.....

 

[PCL_128]

DW's base compensation was $372,728.00 per year.

There you go, John, you finally go the correct figure!!! Nevermind the fact that you were $50,000 off in your original post.

Go ahead and look for yourself

I don't need to look, John. I was there at the BOD in October when a nearly identical resolution was passed for Captain Prater's compensation. As it's been for several years now, the President's compensation is based upon the average of the highest three ALPA carrier's payrates and maximum hours he could have flown under those contracts. An override is provided because you have to provide some sort of incentive for someone to give up their entire life for at least four years for that job. You know how much of an ALPA "cheerleader" I am, but even I wouldn't take that job.

 

[JoeMerchant]

There you go, John, you finally go the correct figure!!! Nevermind the fact that you were $50,000 off in your original post.

I wasn't "$50,000 off". The total compensation comes to $502,728.00 per year. I was wrong because it is actually more.....

Here was your quote:

"As usual, you've clearly displayed your utter ignorance. Captain Woerth never received anything close to $420,000 per year"

$502,728.00 per year in total compensation is nothing "close to $420,000 per year" in your mind? You are starting to sound like a liberal PCL..... Fuzzy math I guess.....

I don't need to look, John. I was there at the BOD in October when a nearly identical resolution was passed for Captain Prater's compensation. As it's been for several years now, the President's compensation is based upon the average of the highest three ALPA carrier's payrates and maximum hours he could have flown under those contracts. An override is provided because you have to provide some sort of incentive for someone to give up their entire life for at least four years for that job. You know how much of an ALPA "cheerleader" I am, but even I wouldn't take that job.

For $502,728.00 per year and a pension of $149,091.20 I bet you would....

Do you know that the formula was changed after 911? It used to be an average of the highest 6 ALPA carriers, but that was changed at the 2002 BOD because of all the paycuts after 911.... after all we can't have the poor ALPA president feel the effects that the membership has felt now can we....

Skywest and Colgan pilots are you seeing how ALPA works....

 

[PCL_128]

1. What mistake did ASA and CMR make?

Absolute refusal to compromise during the PID discussions. There has to be give and take on both sides. I'll defer specifics to Occam since he was actually there during that BOD.

2. What do you mean by "compromise and share the burden"?

Many regional pilots expect mainline MECs to sacrifice unbelievable amounts of negotiating capital to achieve a pure single list with full integration. When these pilots are told that there might be a long-term fence as part of the deal (similar to former Republic pilots fenced out of the widebodies for years at NWA), then those pilots get pissed and demand an immediate and complete integration without fences, and of course, they refuse to consider the idea of a staple. This simply takes too much negotiating capital (not to mention that it's just ridiculous for a 20-year MSA or PCL Captain to think that he deserves an A320 Captain seat at NWA). We have to think outside of the box on this and come up with a phased integration that won't require as much negotiating capital to achieve.

3. My understanding is that the NWA MEC just shot down the PID resolution...... comments????

There hasn't been an official vote on requesting an actual PID. The conversations I had with the NWA reps were in reference to accomplishing this later on down the road, not immediately in reference to the scope grievance. I suspect that the scope grievance will be settled by recouping some of the concessions.

4. How much time do you want? ALPA has been studying the scope problem since 1995.... 12 years isn't long enough.....

I don't much care about what mistakes have been made over the past 12 years. Those mistakes have been made, and it's time to move on. (I would go back further, by the way. The scope mistakes started when the first RJ appeared at a feeder carrier) I'm not looking back at those mistakes. I'm looking towards the future and what we can do to fix the problems. Complaining about the past and filing lawsuits will accomplish nothing. Talking with mainline MECs, building bridges and relationships, and thinking outside of the box is the way to go. I'll be doing that while you're whining and complaining and sending checks to that hack Haber.

 

[PCL_128]

I wasn't "$50,000 off". The total compensation comes to $502,728.00 per year. I was wrong because it is actually more.....

Here was your quote:

"As usual, you've clearly displayed your utter ignorance. Captain Woerth never received anything close to $420,000 per year"

$502,728.00 per year in total compensation is nothing "close to $420,000 per year" in your mind? You are starting to sound like a liberal PCL..... Fuzzy math I guess.....

Alright, John, in that case, I must have made about $130,000 last year by your way of thinking. After all, since you're including Captain Woerth's benefits, hotel costs, car rentals, phone/internet bills, meal costs, etc... in his "compensation," I guess we should include that when we talk about our own compensation, right? How much did you "make" last year, John? $150,000 in "total compensation?" Don't be a twit. Captain Woerth's real compensation was only $372,000 (including Presidential override), because no one in their right mind would include expenses as "compensation." You know, unless you're some sort of anti-union weasil like those guys over at Unionfacts.

For $502,728.00 per year and a pension of $149,091.20 I bet you would....

Sorry, not worth it.

Do you know that the formula was changed after 911? It used to be an average of the highest 6 ALPA carriers, but that was changed at the 2002 BOD because of all the paycuts after 911.... after all we can't have the poor ALPA president feel the effects that the membership has felt now can we....

Yes, I'm well aware that the formula was changed. As far as I'm concerned, the change didn't go far enough. The President actually deserves that $500k figure that you're throwing around. It's a shame that he doesn't get anything close to that, considering all of the work that he does.