Colgan Air

[chperplt]

If you read what I wrote, you would have the answers to most of your questions. Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing!

 

[BSkin]

Times are changing my friend.. Beech 1900 PIC time (just B1900 PIC time) aint worth a hell of a lot right now. Airlines that use to love 1900 drivers aren't very interested in them anymore.

I have to disagree with you, R. In my class, 8 mos. ago, there were 4 people that were B-1900 Captains -- I was the only one that didn't have "just B1900 PIC time". Since then I know for a fact there have been plenty of B-1900 Capts hired, from plenty of different companies. Two, in fact, just finished their second week of ground school here -- one who you know from CJC, though some SAAB time was involved also. I'll argue any day that any turboprop part-121 PIC time is more valuable than right seat of an RJ.

If the money and QOL are right, what's wrong with being in the right seat of an RJ? Plus, many of the FOs that bailed went to carriers that continue to grow and still offer a relatively quick upgrade. Some others went to a new carrier for QOL.

Either way, what's right for one may not be for another.

Nothing at all is wrong with that. I'm just pointing out that if one puts up with the bullsh!t, gets upgraded, and gets lots of PIC time, one will have an opportunity to further one's career sooner.

QOL may be better but how long is that good for when you look at it in the long term. Unless your goal is to be an RJ Capt. (and I'm not addressing you, R., it's part of the reasoning), you'll have to start at the bottom all over again somewhere (hopefully) better. Not saying that a career RJ captain is a bad thing, but you're riding the coattails of your parent company (ies), and these days that can be scary. Well, enough said, my view is known. CJC, not a great company but a good place to get valuable PART-121 PIC-TURBINE time.

 

[chperplt]

B

I understand what you're saying and agree with most of it.

What do you consider to be lots of PIC time? Will someone with 3000 hours of PIC be able to further their career sooner than someone with 1500? The only way someone will further their career in this industry is by way of walk in recommendation. The amount of PIC time adds very little to the equation.

PIC time better than SIC time regardless of type. But PIC time does not mean career progression..

 

[BSkin]

Congrats on the job at Airtran, but lets be honest, no longer can you go to airtran with turbopop pic time. Furthermore, when I went to Colgan, I had no idea what a terrible airline it was and I think it is very beneficial to anyone contemplating them to know the full truth. The maint. sucks, the sched. sucks, the commute sucks, and the management sucks. However, after two years there, except for a couple, the crews were great. Something about being in the sh@t hole together makes everyone closer. For anyone planning a job at Colgan, it is not like anywhere else you will ever go. Currently I am at ASA and let me tell you, I was totally astonished at how much different and better it was. Colgan is not an airline, they are a 135 outfit with a regular schedule.

Thanks for the congrats, and YES you can come to Airtran with ONLY turboprop PIC time -- see my previous post. Granted it's competetive, but where is it not (I know, CJC)? Commuting sucks altogether, that can't be blamed on Colgan. You can honestly tell me you haven't had problems w/ scheduling at ASA? Granted, mine here have been minor in comparison, and it's always easier to deal w/them with a contract in front of you -- either they're right or you are and no arguing. Management is doing something right here. Maintenance -- well -- I could do my walkaround with my eyes closed, and I may have to if I fly one of our new "Benny and the Jets" jet -- one bad move by mgmnt.

 

[BSkin]

R,

I DO believe that someone with 3000 vs 1500 PIC time has an easier time moving up in their career. It doesn't mean that the guy (or gal) with 1500 can't do it first, they just have to work harder for it. It IS mostly about recommendations, hitting the Kit Darby money pit fairs and talking to HR at whatever company you're interested in, and your records. Let's face it, not many choices out there right now on where to go (LUV,BLUE,CITRUS,CACTUS-from one of your posts, didn't realize they were hiring) outside of the regionals and fractionals, and the lucky few that have connections at UPS or FEDEX.

Just, again, saying working for someone like CJC and getting thousands of hours of PIC (along with some hardship) is more valuable than jumping ship (as an FO) from CJC to an RJ company.

 

[chperplt]

B,

Before 9/11 I would agree with you 100%. Today it's all about who you know and what they can/will do for you.

Granted, you still have to impress at the interview to succeed. I just don't believe that experience level and qualifications is what gets you the interview anymore. It's certainly on the list of importance, but it's not near the top anymore.

I finished my 1st year PC ride yesterday and am on vacation now.. Time for a drink or two or three..

Say hi to Jody for me.

 

[BSkin]

B,

Before 9/11 I would agree with you 100%. Today it's all about who you know and what they can/will do for you.

Granted, you still have to impress at the interview to succeed. I just don't believe that experience level and qualifications is what gets you the interview anymore. It's certainly on the list of importance, but it's not near the top anymore.

I finished my 1st year PC ride yesterday and am on vacation now.. Time for a drink or two or three..

Say hi to Jody for me.

I will say hi, and good to get that first PC check out of the way, but how in the world can you say that experience level and qualifications is not near the top of importance anymore? That's ridiculous! Who you know is great, but if you don't have the quals, where do you get?

Getting on somewhere is a combination of all that has been mentioned above, but if Timmaay has the same quals as Jimmaay, but Jimmaay has a few more PIC hours, and they do the same in their interview, with one spot to fill, who do you think will get hired? Timmaaaaaay is out of luck! (even though he's a better character).

Maybe that could be "Cripple Fight II"

 

[chperplt]

but how in the world can you say that experience level and qualifications is not near the top of importance anymore?

I say that because I've seen first hand people getting hired by many different airlines with very low experience. In the last 6 months alone, I know of more than 20 people that have been hired by a national carrier. Of that 20, I know 12 of them had no left seat experience and were not prior military. I also know that they knew people that got them an interview.

Getting the interview is the key to the equation. If Timmay knows someone that can help with the process and Jimmay does not... then Jimmay is up sh!t's creak without a wheelchair. Now, if both Timmay and Jimmay knows someone and they both get an interview, then quals may come into play.

If both Jimmay and Timmay score equally well on the complete interview with only one position to fill, then the one with the better quals will probably get the job. By your logic, Jimmay who has a much better resume stands the same chance of getting an interview as Timmay. That's not the case and therefore quals and experience are not on the top of the list.

Who better to fill your ranks with then an in house reference. Sure, Timmay only has 3000 hours and has only sat in the left seat for 500 hours. Captain Cartman or First Officer Butters has flown with Timmay and thinks he'd be a great fit.

My point in all of that is that quals and experience are not being used as the end all be all way of calling people for interviews. Before you went to AirTran, you had great qualifications and experience. You had the experience to go anywhere. Do you think you would have gotten a call without an in house rec? How many people are offered interviews after going to a job fair, where quals and experience are the only tools the recruiter has to go by... 2%..maybe 3 out of all interviews?

Back to vacation and my liquor cabinet.

 

[BSkin]

How many people are offered interviews after going to a job fair, where quals and experience are the only tools the recruiter has to go by... 2%..maybe 3 out of all interviews?

Can't tell you the percentage of these people that get interviews. I can tell you that there were at least 3 in my class that only met them at a job fair - and had no internal recs. A few more had both a rec and went to a fair. Not a fan of those things, but it works for people. And, they are examples of where people that might have lesser quals can go, talk with the HR folk, and let their personality and presentation give them a hand up. They are essentially a pre-interview.