Coffee

[uwochris]

Hey guys,

I've been doing some research for a report I have due on pilot fatigue. It seems some sources say to stay away from coffee and avoid it like it's the devil. Other people seem to believe that 1 cup or so a day will do no harm.

Just curious.... are there any regular coffee drinkers here? Do you try to avoid the stuff prior to flying? Would you recommend staying away from the stuff, or is it allright to be drinking 1 cup or so daily?

Thanks.

 

[Mookie]

I use a multiplier when factoring coffee intake.

For every 6 oz cup of "Cafe Brasilia", I drink at least 16 oz of h2o. Had a kidney stone once....pain in the arse ;-), so I'm a little psycho about hydration.

mookie

 

[jenga]

Nothin' like a cup o' coffee to jump start your brain when your pager wakes you up at 0230 and you now have to get ready and get to the airport w/in 30 min.

IMO, in the middle of the night, I think it is more safe to gulp one down to get your mental juices flowing, than to not. Without chuggin' some coffee after being rudely awakened, I move like a three-toed sloth, when I need to move quick like a cheetah.

I love coffee. Yet, I generally try to keep it under 2 cups/day. Any more than that and I turn into "...the great Cornholio!"

I have read studies that stated under 3 cups will not benefit, nor harm you. Some studies have stated that one cup/day is beneficial. Most studies say that more than 2-3/day can have negative effects.

I'm sure there are some freight dogs(coffee hounds) out there who'd like to comment.

 

[jenga]

uwochris,

One thing's for sure: your avatar has had WAY too much coffee.

 

[TgrPlt]

I have at least a cup of coffee every morning. It doesn't matter if I'm flying that day or not. Although when your show time is at 0400 the coffee is in significantly higher demand. On an evening sortie, I'll make sure to have a thermos with me to give me a little jolt if need it. However, I always carry two bottles of water with me to prevent dehydration.

 

[supsup]

I used to be a freight conductor for UPRR. On a night run I would drink an entire thermos. It did a great job keeping me awake for 12 to 14 hours, but made it extremely difficult to get to sleep on the other end. Now i hardly touch the stuff. I mainly just "do the dew."

supsup

 

[LR25]

7-8 legs aday, 14 hour duty day, there a lot of coffee cunsumption, day or night, but I think thats what happens when you are a reformed freight dog.

Here a tip if you fly into CLT alot, keep the Maxwell house coffee cup you get from the concession stand, you get free refills allday and night.

 

[Vik]

I don't fly for a living, but I like the taste of coffee. I drink decaf and drink it once in awhile.

Anything in excess is bad for you.

Aside from those of you that are paged at 2am to fly at 3am, the rest of you on a schedule should be able to get up and go to work without needing coffee. If you do need coffee after 6-8hrs of scheduled sleep, you aren't eating right or getting good quality sleep.

If your body has gotten used to it, slowly taper it off, switch from caf to decaf for half your cups, etc.

I was hooked on coffee in college. I only got about 3hrs of sleep / night, so coffee was required because M-F I was pulling all nighters. It took me 3 months to get off the stuff and even if I got one cup less than what I normally drank, I would get horrible headaches.

Bad memories, must forget. =)

 

[350DRIVER]

2:00AM wake up- 5:00AM departure- 1hr commute to the airport- 14 hour duty day ahead= PLENTY of coffee..... I am only a coffee drinker in the AM. I don't think that it does any harm other than getting the brain in gear.! !

3 5 0

Signature at LGA has g o o d coffee.)-

 

[Seair]

I've been doing some research for a report I have due on pilot fatigue. It seems some sources say to stay away from coffee and avoid it like it's the devil. Other people seem to believe that 1 cup or so a day will do no harm.

That's weird...

I studied biology in school and there was this topic which was covered in the syllabus too on drugs.

Coffee contains caffeine and caffine is a stimulant drug. It stimulate the central nervous system thus, that is what keeps you "wide" awake. Too bad to some who don't feel the effect as they are added in to coffee and tea in small amounts. Caffeine may be prescribed to overcome fatigue and drowsiness or to counter depression.

However, an overdose may be harmful as caffine may be bad for the heart or kidneys. Thus, given the potentially harmful effects of caffine, serveral companies have marketed substitues for coffee. The most popular of these is Postum. It is a nutrious breverage of wheat, molasses and wheat bran that was sold in Charles Post in 1893. sorry for advertising if u consider this to be so... Nowdays, coffee and colas are DECAFFEINATED.

So what's the point of avoiding it if you want to drink it? And what's the point of drinking it to keep you awake? Some claim that they had managed to keep themselves awake by drinking coffee seem to me that it was some phycological effect. They just believe in coffee so much that they "hypnotise" themselves.

Hope this little info here helps
All the best for your report
Cheers

(s) Seair

 

[rjcap]

I worship coffee. My favorite flight bag sticker is, " NO COFFEE NO FLYEE."

On a more serious note. If you ever notice the Europeans drink tons of espresso which is coffee shots. that stuff will blow a hole in the back of your head. I don't believe the europeans are dropping dead like americans are. Primarily life style and the pathetic diets that the US has wrapped itself in.

While caffeine (sp?) is a stimulant you will find it in almost all soft drinks, chocolate etc. It will put you on an up and down cycle but the key is to not consume large doses of caff in the late afternoon if you want to go to sleep at a normal hour.

regarding kidney stones, my understanding was ice tea was a primary culprit. Nevertheless drink tons of H2O.

later

 

[bobbysamd]

I agree especially with the above post. For example, the Italians, who, seemingly, chug espresso, eat lots of pasta, olive oil and vegetables, etc., and drink wine. Wine has been demonstrated to be good for the blood. And, it has been documented that Italians have far fewer heart attacks than Americans with their fat and beef artery-clogging diets.

I generally drink one cup of coffee in the morning. But, the rest of the day when I'm working I drink several Diet Pepsis. Maybe Chris' study should focus more on caffeine usage instead of strictly coffee, because caffeine is found is so many other foods, including soda, chocolate, tea, etc.

 

[rumpletumbler]

I drink a pot in the morning 12 cup Farberware perculator and a pot at night. It's not really 12 cups though as they must measure the cups used by fairies or something. Quit once from this same intake of my habit and had a three day really bad headache and that was the end of it. I'm back on schedule now and need to stop again. I'm sort of like Bad Bob in Blazing Saddles just pick it up off the fire and kill the whole pot. I like it hot and in great quantity.

RT

 

[CatcherintheSky]

Austrailian Study

There is a study out that compares fatigue from high duty times and the loss of mental acuity from the consumption of alcohol. I need to double check but I believe that a 16 to 18hr duty day brings your mental skills down to the same level as someone with .04 blood alcohol level. After 20hrs it is up to .08...

The suggestions from the researchers were the use of naps and the calculated use of caffine (ie. COFFEE). That glorious beverage, the elixcir of life, anyway, it said that these were the best rememdies to counteract fatigue and maintain mental sharpness.

Good luck on your study

 

[TurboS7]

I use coffee to keep going on long haul trips. I also drink a liter of water right along with it. Drink coffee, drink water, piss, drink coffee, drink water, piss. The little creamers that are all diffrent type of flavors work great to keep it from being boring.Drink coffee, position report, LRN chart plot, piss, drink water, drink coffee,postition report, LRN chart plot, piss, check pilot O2, must stop the pissing. Bladder bust time, land. I do not recommend this but I just can't kick the habit.

 

[rptrain]

Here's what NASA has to say about it:

-----
Caffeine, a stimulant, can be consumed strategically to acutely increase alertness. It is best not to continually have caffeine before, during, and after a flight. Instead, choose the periods when caffeine can be used to combat a specific period of sleepiness (such as 3_5 A.M. or 3_5 P.M.). Avoid using it when you are already alert, such as just after a nap.

Though affected by several variables (e.g., body size, previous food intake), caffeine will usually take 15_30 minutes to take effect and then last for up to 3_4 hours. Therefore, continually consuming caffeine throughout the day could interfere with subsequent sleep. Stop caffeine consumption far enough in advance of a planned bedtime so that it will no longer be active.
-----

 

[contactapp]

I don't drink any coffee at all. For some reason, it has no effect on me. I just try to get 8 hour of sleep and I'm fine in the morning. The way you guys talk about it it sounds like it's heroin or something and your proud of your addiction. I know it's tough for some of you but I think it's better to get a good nights rest. Everyone knows that any kind of drug taken regularly makes you dependent on it and will always do more harm than good. If you want to do a drug that has positive effects then drink alcohol. It makes ugly girls cute

 

[TurboS7]

How about the sced of my last trip.
Get called at 1600 for a 0400 show in the morning.
Get up at 0130 eat breakfast. Leave house to drive to work at 0230. Arrive at 0315. Take off at 0600 for Santa Maria, Azores. Arrive at 1300 dusk at Santa Maria. refuel. Take off at 1400 which is very dark by now at Santa Maria fly to HER(Crete) arrive at 2000(EST) it is 0200 local. 12 hours on the ground, and return the same route all night arriving at 0300 in the morning at Miami. That really gets your internal clock all messed up. Who needs coffee--------na.

 

[dmspilot00]

comments

Chocolate has about as much caffeine as a cup of decaf coffee. It's the sugar that makes you hyper, of course.

Usually only cola-based soft drinks have caffeine, with the exception of Mountain Dew and its competitors. Root beer usually doesn't have caffeine, but Barq's does.

Don't ever let a drink with nutrasweet/aspartame get warm. There was a post on here a few weeks ago about drinking warm diet pepsi, but I didn't get a chance to respond to that. When a beverage with aspartame gets warm, there is a chemical reaction that results in the creation of substances that are proven toxic.

I gave up pop/soda for Lent a few years ago, and drank only water. Since then if I ever drink soda/pop, it makes me sick.

Caffeine should be a short-term, last-ditch solution only. It just isn't a good idea to consume it regularly.

 

[IAHERJ]

AHHHH Coffee!!!

I drink it every leg of a trip it seems. Here is my coffee schedule for my 4 day trip comming up tomorrow.

5:30 wakeup and get dressed and drive to local airport as to arrive by 6:30. Order coffee at the coffee shop then board commute flight (25 minute hop to IAH) to work. Go have another coffee while I wait for report time.

1145 depart for my first of a wopping 5 legs on the ERJ tomorrow. Coffee on at least 3 of them along with my bottle of water. If the F/A does not make coffee in the afternoon, then I make it myself or ask for it (usually they will make it and laugh at me for wanting it at 3 P.M.

2035 Coffee once again for the 1 hour 52 minute flight to San Louis Pottussi (sp?) SLP in Mexico where I'll spend the next 33 hours or two nights. Then on Wednesday it's up early for a 0700 push out of SLP back to IAH only to endure immigration and customs and a repo of the plane back over to the B terminal before another 3 legs of flying.

You get the picture I know! Coffee all the time and a few beers in Mexico and you've got a great 4 day trip.

 

[BoDEAN]

Hey guys,

I've been doing some research for a report I have due on pilot fatigue. It seems some sources say to stay away from coffee and avoid it like it's the devil. Other people seem to believe that 1 cup or so a day will do no harm.

Just curious.... are there any regular coffee drinkers here? Do you try to avoid the stuff prior to flying? Would you recommend staying away from the stuff, or is it allright to be drinking 1 cup or so daily?

Thanks.

I drink coffee M-F. Maybe 3 cups a day? The only thing I avoid is a lot of coffee prior to flying, because I have to go to the bathroom during flights.

 

[Sonic Cruzer]

Java Test Engineering

In college I grew to become at minimum a 3-cup a day drinker (not to mention a few dews and surges too.) The shock of a friend's death knocked me off caffeine cold turkey for six weeks. That was in '97. I can only only remember 1 day since then on which I drank more than a second cup.

I'm a bit of a gourmet and personally enjoy a really good cup of coffee (light-roast arabica variety, brewed by infusion or french press) once a day. Similar to what someone quoted from NASA, I typically drink this in mid-afternoon when the post lunch digestive processes weigh down my eyelids.

By the way, a common misconception is that the darker the roast, the stronger the caffeine high. Caffeine is an organic compound present in the green unroasted coffee beans. Naturally it is destroyed by heat. Therefore, it is the LIGHTER roasts of coffee that give the greatest kick.

About a year or so ago, bottles of Starbucks Frappucinos started making their way into our flight test coolers. These were quickly met with such widespread approval that a Test Director's rep now partly depends on whether he/she orders Fraps for the flight.

Since high altitude and caffeine both act to suppress the body's antidiuretic hormone (i.e. they make you pee more) I try to drink non-caffeinated beverages inflight.

One exception is that on the job, I'll only drink coffee (only on a full stomach) when I could use some extra mental acuity toward the end of a long test flight. The thought of coffee on an empty stomach stirs up unpleasant memories of a hot summer's day at COS bumping through a dozen autolands in the back of 737 with no yaw damper and only stale coffee in my stomach. Blyyyach!

Lastly, for sh*ts and grins I recently tried drinking some fresh ground DECAF coffee. On multiple occasions I found that I still get a kick from the decaf coffee. While no decaffeination process is perfect (short of turning the beans into charcoal), I suspect that the non-caffeine chemicals in the coffee tricked the body into behaving as if the caffeine was there, even though it wasn't. Sort of a twist on the placebo effect.

 

[Slug]

lack thereof

Gave up caffine April 1st. I have felt great ever since then. I didn't like coffee anyway and gave up the sodas too.

I had early week at DLF with an average show of 0500 last week and didn't miss a beat. Won't go back.

Slug

 

[FL717]

The biggest part to consider to coffee and water intake is to get on a lav schedule. When I flew for a regional carrier and in the DC-9 for this company, on the morning flights I would always drink at least one or two cups of coffee during the preflight, and get another before the cockpit door closed. In the afternoon or evening I would do the same thing, but substitute Pepsi or Coke. Maybe it was psychological, but it definitely seemed to keep me alert. I would also keep water available so that I could keep from getting dehydrated. Those flights were typically between 50 minutes to 1 hour 30 minutes long, and keeping the lav breaks on schedule was easier. Since flying the B-717, we are doing longer flights, sometimes pushing 3 hours on certain trips, and I have to really scale back on the coffee (but still keep the water) now because since 9-11 it is such a pain in the arse to leave the cockpit inflight for the lav. In fact, short of a bladder blowout, I try to wait until we get on the ground. Last week BWI - RSW, I loaded up on several cups of coffee, and felt the bladder exceed redline somewhere over CHS. I'm thinking caffiene tablets would probably be the solution to this dilema, but I worry about the high doses that they contain.

Any suggestions?

 

[Sonic Cruzer]

As I alluded to before, the cabin altitude is already trying to dehydrate you. The dehydration in turn creates more fatigue. Caffeine tablets would still speed up your bladder no matter what you've been drinking. Have you tried ice? Maybe your FAs can supply you with your own ice bucket. Ice and really cold ice water or something with electrolytes might help you.

BTW, nice Dash 80 photo. We have a few hanging up around here. Boeing's prepping the Dash 80 for one last flight in 2003 to celebrate the centennial of flight.

 

[Birdstrike]

You Mean It's Not a Speakerphone?

Speaking of lav breaks...first time I ever boarded a CH-47 Chinook, I was a college student and it was parked for a static display in BDL. I think. I sat down in the left seat. looked down between my legs and saw this long rubber hose laying there attached to what looked like a plastic funnel. I swear I had no idea what the heck it was. Thought it must be some kind of rube goldberg intercom contraption. So I picked it up and held it to my ear and listened. No one answered. How the heck was I supposed to know what it was for?

 

[Salty Dog]

Surface Warfare Officers (SWOs) on Navy ships are the resident ship-drivers and stand watch on the bridge from 4 to 6 hours at a time. The standard watch rotation typically gives you two per day and they move back one watch a day.

So, if you have the midwatch from mid to 0400, you'll then have the 12 - 1600 followed by the 04-07 the next morning. Gotta be worse the worst way ever to do this as far as circadian rythm abuse. (but we've always done it that way!!)

I read a book about a guy standing his watch who, in order to avoid falling asleep standing up, kept drinking coffee in order to throw up which would keep him awake a little longer. I have stood out on the bridgewing in freezing rain in order to stay awake and still fallen asleep standing up!

Now I just drink 5-7 cups a day out of habit. Drinking the stuff 'till you yak is one way to maximize the benfit, though. Probably not as fun in an enclosed cockpit. Wouldn't waste Starbucks if that's the plan, either!!!

zzzzzzzzzz

 

[CatYaaak]

Call me old-fashioned, but personally, I don't completely trust any pilot who:

1) doesn't drink coffee (and "coffee" means black..not some kind of foo-foo concoction flavored to the point of being baby bottle-safe).

and while we are on the subject.....

2) while checking in to a hotel, immediately queries the front desk clerk "do you have a fitness center, and how early does it open in the morning?" even when the next day's/night's flight has an afternoon showtime. Early-riser, salad-eating fitness fanatics are usually worthless by 9 PM when it's past their beddy-bye time, but you still have a few approaches left to shoot. It does nobody any good if you obsessively "hydrate" all day by sucking down 10 bottles of water only to be nodding off later when it counts.

3) frets about mussing up their moussed, structured hair (hey, FA uniforms don't include hats, so why don't you go become one?).

Anyway, coffee rules, and the stress created when one worries about trifling matters such as drinking it has much longer-lasting negative effects. This "Coffee: good or bad?" debate comes up every 10 years or so, and I suspect is generated by Southerners who wouldn't survive living in any climate outside of those akin to Florida's. They just don't get it.

 

[TurboS7]

When I flew in the UK I found the coffee to be just plain foul. On the airplane we didn't even have perked coffee but instant coffee. I converted over to tea, now when it comes to tea the English know who to make it. FA's would bring their own tea making stuff on the airplane...boy was it ever good..."black"was the best.

 

[Yeti]

Cornholio Metamorphosis

By far best coffee I can make myself is Starbucks French Roast in a french press. Should try it!

I agree!

I also do the Starbucks French Roast in the press every day, or every other day.